Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Chemistry Set Boasts “No Chemicals”

Chemistry Set Boasts “No Chemicals”

Cynic - 27-4-2011 at 11:24

Just saw this - Chemistry Set Boasts “No Chemicals”

http://pubs.acs.org/cen/newscripts/89/8909newscripts.html

Better picture of the box cover on link below (perhaps someone can post it inline) Note the bold statement "No Chemicals" - as if that's an amazing new feature for a chemistry set.

http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2011/04/chemistry-set-boasts-no-chemicals.html

this is not going to end well for our society.

Bot0nist - 27-4-2011 at 12:04

Chemical = "A form of matter that has constant chemical composition and characteristic properties."

Is it a vacuum in a box?

MrHomeScientist - 27-4-2011 at 12:13

It is indeed sad to see things like this. My friend gave me a chemistry kit that he received 10+ years ago, and while it did have chemicals they were in extremely tiny quantities absorbed onto bits of paper. The idea was to just fill the little plastic vial with water and shake it to dissolve the chemical. Their concerns about safety sort of made the kit useless, just like this one here (although I did get some pure iron wire and marble bits out of it).

I also find it ironic that Make is complaining about kits with no chemicals, while at the same time their web store Makershed is trying to clear out and get rid of their whole "Science Room" chemistry section. Way to promote science (but thanks for the 75% off deal).

hkparker - 27-4-2011 at 15:22

Quote: Originally posted by MrHomeScientist

It is indeed sad to see things like this. My friend gave me a chemistry kit that he received 10+ years ago, and while it did have chemicals they were in extremely tiny quantities absorbed onto bits of paper. The idea was to just fill the little plastic vial with water and shake it to dissolve the chemical. Their concerns about safety sort of made the kit useless, just like this one here (although I did get some pure iron wire and marble bits out of it).

I also find it ironic that Make is complaining about kits with no chemicals, while at the same time their web store Makershed is trying to clear out and get rid of their whole "Science Room" chemistry section. Way to promote science (but thanks for the 75% off deal).

That's exactly what I had as my first chemistry set. Back then (I was maybe 11-12) I though I might be working with some hard core chemicals if they are all labeled as they were (POISON! DANGER! MAY BE FATAL IF INGESTED!). Weeks ago I found this kit in my garage and took a look at it. That label was for copper sulfate. The worst thing in there was cobalt chloride in a few miligrams dissolved in water. Sad...

I didn't know Make was getting rid of their stuff. I was happy to see them selling chloroform and Iodine a while ago but I guess times are a changin' pretty fast...

Magpie - 27-4-2011 at 15:59

I'm hoping that the trend toward home schooling will bring back proper home chemistry sets and their popularity. Here's testimonies of some illustrious former child chemists:

Nobel laureates remember...

Nikolay Semenov (1956)

'It was the greatest puzzle that sodium, this flammable and malleable metal, and chlorine, this extremely reactive gas, formed innocent table salt. To check this out, I bought a piece of sodium, burned it in chlorine gas, and re-crystalised the precipitate. It was a white powder which I poured over a big slice of bread and it was table salt indeed, the best kind.'

George Porter (1967)

'It was at the age of nine or ten that I was given a chemistry set. I am a great believer in chemistry sets..There was the magic of colour changes and bangs.. We chemists, aged 10, used to make our own fireworks. But you can't do that now.'

William Lipscomb (1976)

'When I was 11 years old my mother bought me one of those chemistry sets and I stayed with it. I discovered that I could buy additional apparatus and chemicals using my father's privilege at the drug store. I began building up a home laboratory.'

Rudolph Marcus (1992)

'My interest in the sciences started with mathematics in the very beginning, and later with chemistry in early high school and the proverbial home chemistry set.'

Kary Mullis (1993)

'Something about tubes filled with things with exotic names intrigued me. My objective with that set was to figure out what things I might put together to cause an explosion. I discovered that whatever chemicals might be missing from the set could be bought at the local drugstore. .We could go down to the hardware store and buy 100 feet of dynamite fuse, and the clerk would just smile and say, "What are you kids going to do? Blow up the bank?"'

Mario Molina (1995)

'I still remember my excitement when I first glanced at paramecia and amoebae through a rather primitive toy microscope. I then converted a bathroom, seldom used by the family, into a laboratory and spent hours playing with chemistry sets.'

Robert Curl (1996)

'When I was nine years old, my parents gave me a chemistry set. Within a week, I had decided to become a chemist and never wavered from that choice.'

Harold Kroto (1996)

'I really got a kick out of growing crystals. That did seem quite magical. However my main memory is of distilling formaldehyde with a school friend. The pungent aroma got in our eyes and had us running out into the back yard.'

Paul Boyer (1997)

'I received a chemistry set when I was about 10. I remember playing with it in the basement of my parents' house and it may have interested me more than I realised.'

Ahmed Zewail (1999)

'I set up some scientific experiments at home in my room. I had some test tubes and would heat some substances, such as wood in them. I could have created an explosion, but I didn't-I was lucky. I was intrigued by these experiments, especially when observing the substance changing from solid to a burning gas.'

Richard Schrock (2005)

'My older brother Theodore.presented me with the proverbial chemistry set on my eighth birthday..I was hooked. I created a small laboratory at the end of a storage area for canned goods and used my budding woodworking skills to build shelves for the ever expanding collection of test-tubes, beakers, and flasks.'

bbartlog - 27-4-2011 at 17:44

And don't forget Moore, who founded Intel... IIRC he fondly recalls detonating homemade dynamite at the age of 11. Though I guess technically that was probably done without the aid of a chemistry set.
I had a chemistry set as a kid in the 1970s. It had some interesting stuff (ammonium chloride, cobalt chloride in substantial quantity, sodium silicate, various other things... no strong acids though). Also a brass blowpipe, alcohol lamp and block of charcoal... very old school, and you can get (very small) things extremely hot with a blowpipe. Though being young I didn't use it for any analytical purpose, just to vaporize or melt things one might think you could not!
Mmm, nostalgia. Now I have to go see whether anyone still sells blowpipes.

Ozone - 27-4-2011 at 19:09

Magpie got it right. It appears that we find ourselves in a world where it has been acknowledged that not everyone has the command of Common Sense (imagine that)...and because of this dearth of knowledge, Common Sense has been made illegal.

Common Sense is dangerous, People!

God help us,

O3

Oh yes, I had a bad-ass chemistry set and could buy just about anything I wanted from the Pharmacy. They had Kiosks selling glassware, tubing, clamps, burners, chemicals, etc. at every Hobby Store (or toy store...I remember the Kiosk at KB). AND, my parents (the biggest difference, I think) brought stuff (like Cd sticks, K2Cr2O7, AgNO3) home for me to "play with"

.

[Edited on 28-4-2011 by Ozone]

Magpie - 27-4-2011 at 21:53

Quote: Originally posted by bbartlog

Now I have to go see whether anyone still sells blowpipes.

See: http://minerox.com/index.cfm?currentpage=2&fuseaction=ca...

They also sell alcohol lamps, charcoal blocks, and a platinum wire for flame tests.

It's sad isn't it???

albqbrian - 26-5-2011 at 19:32

Here's my 1st post, I sure wish it were on a happier subject. This ever stifling nanny state stuff is becoming awful (word chosen carefully). OK, rant over.

I got my 1st chem set when I was 6 or 7. When I was 9 a local lab went broke and my dad bought a bunch of their stuff. I had a righteous set up in our basement after that. At that time (circa 1967) I could buy any chemicals I wanted. The local lab supply place thought it was great that a kid was so interested. Of course that interest focused on "applied energetics". But then my neighbors were cool with it. There'd be a boom and they'd go: "Oh, it's just Brian again" Nary a cop was seen.

That early focus certainly carried forward. I got a B.A. in Chemistry followed by a few years in the Army blowing stuff up. Now my son is 11 and is getting interested in such things. So I'm making my 1st intellectual forays back into the area. Glad I found this forum.

IrC - 27-5-2011 at 15:13

I must conclude if the thread title is true this is a book not a chemistry set.

EllisDTripp - 29-5-2011 at 13:57

Quote: Originally posted by IrC

I must conclude if the thread title is true this is a book not a chemistry set.

Even a book is going to contain quite a bit of cellulose, in addition to whatever the ink and binding adhesive is made from.

Unless they have found a way to contain a hard vacuum inside a cardboard box, then proclaiming the contents "chemical free" constitutes false advertising.

peach - 11-6-2011 at 23:08

Someone in the US buy one, then send it back asking for a refund to the value of the cold trap at CERN as the delay has interfered with your critical kitchen experiments.

m1tanker78 - 12-6-2011 at 08:36

I took my boys to the hobby store yesterday. One of my beloved hobbies is running and fixing RC airplanes/buggies. I was surprised to see a "chemistry set" on the shelf. My older boy wanted me to buy it for him. I started to go down the list of contents and quit reading somewhere between safety goggles and sodium bicarbonate. I chuckled and put it back on the shelf. But hey, there WAS a magnifying glass in there ....Uh-oh.... I sense a lawsuit coming soon. :mad:

Seriously, do they expect kids to bake a cake or what??

Quote:

I'm hoping that the trend toward home schooling will bring back proper home chemistry sets and their popularity.

I'm on board with that but I'll take it a little further. I hope it will bring back a sense of productivity, personal responsibility, and some much-needed common sense!

Tank

IrC - 12-6-2011 at 09:42

"Seriously, do they expect kids to bake a cake or what?"

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but they outlawed the 100 watt incandescent bulb. The easy bake oven you would have bought your 7 year old daughter was far too dangerous as well.

So no, they do not expect your children to bake cakes either. However take heart. They also do not expect your children to get the order correct at the drive through window, the only occupation they still train them for.

It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood.

peach - 12-6-2011 at 11:44

There is of coarse an obvious thing to do here, the forum makes one. Lets see how confident Ye are when it is your name on the box.

Suggestions for exciting for reactions for kids?

Thermite? My sister can't even switch the oven off, and she's 36.

Crystal gardens are banned.

Maybe the kits could be built so that they require the little person to collect the answers and send them back before they can buy the more dangerous kits; and the answers can't be found online. And make it so that the first set inevitably requires them to demonstrate they are capable of being responsible and careful, but without the risk at first. It could be turned into an online game too, to upload photos of results. Hold on....

[Edited on 12-6-2011 by peach]

The WiZard is In - 12-6-2011 at 15:21

Chemcraft No. 5 is from 1957.

Looks like the most toxic chemical was carbon tet,
however, given the small amount in the set ... you would have
had to inject it to do serious damage.

Cobalt chloride is somewhat poisonous.

Manuals say you could have made —

chlorine
iodine
ammonia
nitrogen peroxide
carbon dioxide
sulphorus acid
sulphur trioxide
sulphuric acid
sodium hydroxide
red-yellow-green fire
white/red flashlight powder
hydrogen sulphide
"crying gas" from glycerine and sodium bisulphate

Not noted in the manuals — you could have made

black powder
firecrackers from aluminium and calcium sulphate
thermite from aluminium and manganese dioxide

My longstanding complaint about Chemistry Sets is that
they were not ... they were Chemical Sets to find
the chemistry you would have had to have bought a set
that came with a microscope and put the manual under it.

Not long after I used up the powdered magnesium in mine
I rapidly lost interest.

IrC - 12-6-2011 at 18:24

WiZard, I would like to see scans of some of these old chemistry set books. Just to do the experiments for the fun of it.

Something to remind me of the old days in the 50's and 60's when learning was exciting and fun. I miss those days and if anyone here has access to such books I think you would.

The WiZard is In - 12-6-2011 at 18:59

Quote: Originally posted by IrC

WiZard, I would like to see scans of some of these old chemistry set books. Just to do the experiments for the fun of it.

Something to remind me of the old days in the 50's and 60's when learning was exciting and fun. I miss those days and if anyone here has access to such books I think you would.

I bought my copies on eBay some years ago. I suffer from the
impression they were commonly for sale then. Checking now
both eBay and Abebooks .... no luck. They probable popup now and then.

Scanning in them in toto is ---> not me. Time permitting I'll see if any
appear unique enough to warrant scanning.

djh
----

Early in "Eat People," a business-advice book for "game-changing entrepreneurs,"
former hedge-fund manager Andy Kessler casts his mind back to 10th-grade
chemistry to muse on the "highly reactive" nature of atoms and molecules called
free radicals. Because free radicals have an unpaired electron, he says, "they are
always looking for something to do, hungry for some chemical reaction—like
combustion."

Mr. Kessler's heroes, he says, are the free radicals of the business world,
"someone who not only creates wealth . . . but at the very same time, improves
the world, makes life better, and increases everyone else's standard of living."
The roster ranges from modern free radicals like Steve Jobs and Sam Walton back
to Andrew Carnegie and John D. Rockefeller, though the latter two gents "at
some point" stopped being free radicals and "became monopolists." Rockefeller,
Mr. Kessler says, was "more likely criminal."

http://tinyurl.com/625pjzp

[Edited on 13-6-2011 by The WiZard is In]

entropy51 - 13-6-2011 at 10:35

Quote: Originally posted by IrC

A few scans of old chemistry set books can be found here.

The WiZard is In - 13-6-2011 at 11:53

Quote: Originally posted by entropy51

A few scans of old chemistry set books can be found here.

I forgot to mention I also own a copy of the 3rd edition, 1943
of the 324 page Lionel Chem-Lab Manual. Facts and Fun for the
Boy Chemist. There is a copy for sale on eBay. I did a quick
check with Google... did not find an online copy, however, I did not
search to the end.

WOW Dagwood Spits the Atom, I had a copy of that -
got it for free at Brookhaven National Laboratories Upton, New
York, at an open house back in the 50's.

Google turned this up which I had forgotten about.

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=13708

ScienceHideout - 22-6-2011 at 08:41

For Pete's sake... WATER is a chemical! AIR is a chemical! I do reactions with them, too. What the heck? For everyone here 21 or younger (but older than 14)- we probably will be the only chemists for the rest of time- chemistry sets and neat reactions are what got us into chemistry. There will be a low level of exitement for the next generation. Let us all vow- to raise public awareness of chemistry, and OPPOSE 'no chemical' "chemistry (if you can even call it that)" sets. A while ago I bought a Chem C3000 just to get my lab started and supplement me with a few chemicals. It contained TOO FEW chemicals.
Experiment 1: Mix Sodium Hydrogen carbonate and vinegar. Wear safety glasses!
Experiment 211: Add 2 spoonfuls of sodium carbonate to a mL of water. Add vinegar. Wear goggles!
I probably did 10 actual experiments it tells you to do, and I saved the rest of the chems for REAL experiments.

[Edited on 22-6-2011 by ScienceHideout]

way2jordan - 30-8-2012 at 22:27

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