Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Calcium Chlorate via electrolysis

yobbo II - 30-8-2024 at 08:22


Yo,

I have always thought the being able to make calcium perchlorate would be a very easy route to ammonium perchlorate.
Ca chloride is very easy to obtain. You just add (easy to obtain and cheap) ammonium sulphate to the pure end product. You get insoluble Ca sulphate and ammonium perk. in solution. Centrifuge or filter and evaporate.

The problem with CaCl2 it that Ca Hydroxide sticks to the cathode and stops current from flowing. A spinning cathode would probably cure the problem but that is bothersome.
Perhaps if one were to use a titanium or SS container for the cell and use the cell as the cathode that would give a large surface area (not good for chlorate reduction problems).
You could arrange for some sort of a rotating brush to keep sweeping the sides of the Ti or SS container.



I downloaded the attached document and translated it from Japanese (at least thats what I think it is :D ) to english using this site:
https://www.i2ocr.com/pdf-ocr-japanese

I used google translate when given the choice on the page as opposed to bing.

Some hilarious translations bo boo's.
eg: The dissolution rate is high at the interface between the air and the liquid surface, but the dissolution rate in the liquid is low.
It is believed that the situation can be improved considerably by the husband.

Moving along.


The original is not 'text' as such but a pdf picture so I went through OCR first.

The result is readable. It does not keep the format/layout of the document intact so there is all sorts of info. appearing out of place.

Can anyone tell me what the metals pot or bell might be?
In the conclusion at the bottom it states:
"This problem can be avoided by using an amphoteric metal cathode such as a pot, zinc, or bell."


Are there any better OCR + translations sites out there?

Comments welcome.

Yob


Attachment: KJ00000155275-1.pdf (270kB)
This file has been downloaded 119 times

Attachment: complete_English.txt (13kB)
This file has been downloaded 68 times

[Edited on 30-8-2024 by yobbo II]

Sulaiman - 31-8-2024 at 00:32

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_metal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pot_metal

Parakeet - 31-8-2024 at 07:42

A native Japanese speaker here.
I've read the paper both in Japanese and in the English translation. The OCR and Google Translation is doing a decent job for some parts, but for other parts, it's far from correct.
This paper seems to be old (published in 1963) so it contains really obsolete words that Google Translation cannot probably understand. And I'm not aware of any better OCR/translation serveices.

Quote: Originally posted by yobbo II  

Can anyone tell me what the metals pot or bell might be?
In the conclusion at the bottom it states:
"This problem can be avoided by using an amphoteric metal cathode such as a pot, zinc, or bell."


The original document says nothing about "pot" and "bell". Probably a mistranslation of "tin" (Sn) and "lead" (Pb). So, it has nothing to do with copper alloy!
Here's the correct translation (or at least better than Google Translation, I believe) of the conclusion:
Quote:

Considering the above results, when producing calcium chlorate by electrolysis of calcium chloride solution, the first problem is that calcium hydroxide adheres to the cathode and prevents current flow. This can be avoided by using an amphoteric metal cathode such as tin, zinc, or lead. However, amphoteric metal cathodes are prone to electrode dissolution, and have a strong reducing power, making reduction inhibitors useless and resulting in a significant drop in current efficiency. Thus, there is currently no good method for electrolyzing calcium chloride solution. If anything, it would be promising to use an iron plate electrode and electrolyze at an extremely low current density, but for this purpose, it is thought that some ingenuity is required in the structure of the tank and the reduction inhibitor. It should be noted that although calcium hydroxide deposition can be prevented by performing AC electrolysis, the current efficiency is close to zero at commercial frequencies.

If you have any questions about this paper, I will be happy to help.

bnull - 31-8-2024 at 08:08

Mistranslation by association: tin>tin can>pot.
Quote: Originally posted by yobbo II  
Are there any better OCR + translations sites out there?

Try Convertio for OCR and then feed the text to ChatGPT. While it is widely known for its hallucinations (of which I have several examples) and its shameless apologizing after being contradicted (even when it is absolutely correct), its translations are quite good.
Quote:
It is believed that the situation can be improved considerably by the husband.
Wise words.