ThatChemist89 - 25-8-2024 at 11:39
Hello!
Its already established that magnesium sulfate can react with sodium carbonate to yield sodium sulfate at room temperature.
Would it be possible to replace the sodium carbonate with copper carbonate to yield coper sulfate?
I'm on my quest to acquire copper sulfate without using H2SO4
I cant electrolyze magnesium sulfate because i lack the ion exchange medium.
The only way for me would be to electrolyze copper sulfate which is very expensive...... Would the reaction work though and at what temperatures?
(also can bicarbonates be used?)
Rainwater - 25-8-2024 at 12:19
Short answer No.
click here for a more detailed explanation
Big 3 thing working against this reaction
The the solubility of copper carbonate.
The reactivity of copper vs magnesium
The lack of a driving force like electricity or heat
knowledgevschaos - 25-8-2024 at 17:39
I agree with you that it won't work, but I don't think the reactivity of the metals plays a part. The reactivity determines how easily the atom loses
electrons, but in the salts both ions have lost their electrons already, and are not gaining or losing any electrons. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
I'm sure there's some way to get copper carbonate into sulfate without sulfuric acid, probably by dissolving it in another acid and precipitating
something from there?
A few people have made sulfuric acid from a sulfate just using something like a porous terracotta pot, no ion exchange media, this might be your best
option. There are a few videos of how to do this.
Rainwater - 25-8-2024 at 18:57
If you strongly heated the sodium sulfate and exposed copper carbonate to the gases produced, that would form copper sulfate and co2 gas.
But doing the same with water would form sulfuric acid. Which could then be used to make the copper salt.
This is a dangerous procedure.
As for aqueous chemistry, specifically a displacement reaction, i dont believe this will work directly
I think that dissolving both CuCO3 and Na2SO4 in water would look something like
$$ Cu^{+2} + 2Na^+ + \infty H^+ + CO_3^{-2} + SO_4^{-2} + \infty OH^-$$
So there are 6 different chemical units(3 cations, 3 anions) giving 9 combinations. There are a few more that involve bicarbonates but im not going to
list them out of laziness.
CuCO3 - Insoluble
CuSO4 - 23.1 g/100 ml (0 °C)
Cu(OH)2 - Almost insoluble
Na2CO3 - 7 g/100 ml (0 °C)
Na2SO4 - 19.5 g/100 ml (0 °C)
NaOH - 41.8 g/100 ml (0 °C)
H2CO3 - miscible
H2SO4 - miscible
HOH - miscible
So if we get all this into solution, we have no reaction. Just some colored water.
definition of a chemical reaction
But as consentrations change the chemical equilibrium changes.
The simplest to use to define this reaction will be solubility of each compound
Copper carbonate being insoluble will percipitate first. Leaving just
$$2Na^+ + \infty H^+ + SO_4^{-2} + \infty OH^-$$
In solution.
Without a driving force, such as electrolysis, you can not produce any acid.
Now if you had inert electrodes, you could possibly generate some acid at the anode, a method of separation (membrane or salt bridge) could be used to
isolate the acid and react it with the copper carbonate later. If you try to do it all in one pot, as copper sulfate forms, it will transition across
the barrier into the cathode compartment and react with the solution there, resulting in the firther consentration of the acid in the anode
compartment and metal deposits on the cathode or hydroxide formation
Precipitates - 25-8-2024 at 19:24
The following thread has further suggestions:
https://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=19825
And the possibility of an electrolysis free route in the final post by AJKOER.