Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Tin formate

Alkoholvergiftung - 24-8-2024 at 00:46

Has somebody some infos on Tinformat? Synthesis? I couldnt find anything on google. Dont think Tin powder and Formic acid will work.
Tinformat would be an interresting route to Formaldehyde if heated to 200C it forms pure Formaldehyde without by products.

Edit by Texium: changed title to English spelling for clarity

[Edited on 8-25-2024 by Texium]

RustyShackleford - 24-8-2024 at 01:39

I would try double displacement with tin sulfate and calcium formate

SplendidAcylation - 24-8-2024 at 13:25

Hiya.

I have tried making formaldehyde this way, and it doesn't work... At least, I couldn't get it to work!

I spent a lot of time on it and then eventually gave up, as even with the much appreciated help of the SM community, it seemed like it was just impractical.

Here is my thread on the topic:
https://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=15540...

You should find everything you need there regarding the synthesis, or in some of the attached threads/papers.

@RustyShackleford, interesting idea, I imagine it would work, but I have never tried it so I'm not sure.

Rainwater - 24-8-2024 at 18:03

https://doi.org/10.1039/JR9640004801
Taken from the abstract
Quote:
A paste of freshly prepared hydrous
tin(I1) oxide was refluxed with aqueous formic acid of various concentrations (150 ml. of 30-
100% w/w) under oxygen-free nitrogen until it dissolved (ca. 2 hr.). The solution was filtered
hot and cooled, and the white crystalline product filtered off, washed, and dried as in method (1).
Pure crystalline tin(t1) formate was obtained by this method but the yields (maximum 50%)
were poor

The rest of the artical talks about checking purity, decomposition temps, solubility
And why they think other attempts failed to produce good results

Alkoholvergiftung - 24-8-2024 at 22:58

SplendidAcylation. I had the idea with zinc formate too. But in Karl A. Hoffmann experminets he wrote you must lit CO2 gas throught the reaction chamber to remove the Formaldehyde if not it reacts too Methylformiat or Methanol. Maybe the same problem with Tin formate. Oh and he wrote it only work with weak basic elements the stronger the base less does it work because the formation of methanol is prvered. And Tin format would the only metal who forms pur Formaldehyde.

Alkoholvergiftung - 13-12-2024 at 10:06

Found an old patent about Formic acid and the reduction with magnesium gives Formaldehyde. Newer sources write about this methode as an quantitative anylsis of formaldhyde in urine.
Fenton worte first about it in the chmical central letter from 1907 and the bases of aneline or ammonia highend the yield. the patent: works later with an autoclaven formic acid magnesium ribbons and 1% nickelformiat as catalyst and under reaktion pressure from 9 bar. 30% yield of theorie.
Without pressure only formic acid an magnesium the yield are much lower.
the patent is in German.:

Attachment: FormaldehydeMgReduction.pdf (125kB)
This file has been downloaded 48 times

teodor - 13-12-2024 at 13:37

Quote: Originally posted by Alkoholvergiftung  
Has somebody some infos on Tinformat? Synthesis? I couldnt find anything on google.


The challenge accepted. Let it be in Google.

For tin(II):
Attachment: donaldson1964.pdf (608kB)
This file has been downloaded 60 times

For tin(IV):
Attachment: henderson1965.pdf (372kB)
This file has been downloaded 53 times
Quote: Originally posted by Alkoholvergiftung  

Tinformat would be an interresting route to Formaldehyde if heated to 200C it forms pure Formaldehyde without by products.
[Edited on 8-25-2024 by Texium]


My sources (i.e. Rodd's chemistry of carbon compounds) say that you can use zinc formate. It should give the pure formaldehyde above 240C.


[Edited on 13-12-2024 by teodor]