Sciencemadness Discussion Board

N-acetyl-phenylethylamine

oxidativeamination - 12-4-2011 at 21:19

have read on another forum that it is possible to achieve N-acetylation of PEA by titrating the freeamine to the acetate salt and then distilling this salt. as it's vapourization point would lie around 200 degrees celcius.
after condensation aparently the acetyl would occupy the nitrogen,
displacing one of the hydrogens.

is there any truth to this reaction?

if so where does this hydrogen go? does it form H20 with an OH from the carboxyl group of the acetate?

[Edited on 13-4-2011 by oxidativeamination]

[Edited on 13-4-2011 by oxidativeamination]

oxidativeamination - 12-4-2011 at 21:31

so the reaction would be= (very basically put i dont have chemdraw)

R-NH2 + CH2CH3COOH=

R-NH2CH2CH3COOH + vapourization/condensation=

R-NH-CH2CH3CO + H2O

is this correct? it seems balanced however i dont know if the mechanism is real.


ScienceSquirrel - 13-4-2011 at 03:32

It is quite common for higher melting point amine salts to eliminate water to form the amide on heating.

oxidativeamination - 13-4-2011 at 16:45

so i'm confused here do you think that this amide would have improved bioavailability/ resistance to mono amine oxidase

oxidativeamination - 13-4-2011 at 16:53

so the substance obtained would be Phenylethylacetamide?

mr.crow - 13-4-2011 at 18:16

Quote: Originally posted by oxidativeamination  
so i'm confused here do you think that this amide would have improved bioavailability/ resistance to mono amine oxidase


Keep trying, mr designer. This will form an amide, which has a very different charge and electron density from an amine. Amides are also very stable so the acetyl group isn't going anywhere. Yes, N-phenylethylacetamide would be a name for the product

oxidativeamination - 13-4-2011 at 21:59

so in saying that an amide has a very different electron density and charge from an amine, you are saying that it will become pharmacologically inactive?
so convertion to the amide will effectively decrease or disable ability to cross the BBB?
one more question how does the amide-acetyl linkages stabilty affect its bioavailability?

oxidativeamination - 13-4-2011 at 22:07

my understanding was that amide groups are common in pharmacueticals....

Lysergic acid diethylamide
N-(4-hydroxyphenyl)acetamide (acetaminophen)
the sulfonamides
ETC.

how do you deduce that ability to cross BBB/bioavailability would be adversely affected??
do not take my post wrong, i do not intend to question your reasoning or knowledge only to understand your position

ThatchemistKid - 13-4-2011 at 22:20

would a bit of molecular modeling and docking studies using the protein and inhibitors in question (assuming a crystal structure exists) answer your questions more easily?



[Edited on 14-4-2011 by ThatchemistKid]

oxidativeamination - 15-4-2011 at 00:19

well whatever the case i simply intend to synthesize the compound and do some rodent tests. (light rodent tests).

i'm not inhumane and do not intend to become so inclined. if the rodents tests yeild results i will perform allergy tests on myself, followed by titrated raising of the dose (on different occasions to allow replenishment of neurotransmitters) untill around 150mgs in 10mg increments to determine if the compound has possible activity. if 150mg even is inactive i will abandon tests.

Nicodem - 17-4-2011 at 06:51

Quote: Originally posted by oxidativeamination  
so in saying that an amide has a very different electron density and charge from an amine, you are saying that it will become pharmacologically inactive?
so convertion to the amide will effectively decrease or disable ability to cross the BBB?
one more question how does the amide-acetyl linkages stabilty affect its bioavailability?

Your lack of pharmacology knowledge is only surpassed by the lack of chemical knowledge. This is an honest warning: Please start reading the books and articles first, or else you are going to hurt yourself.

oxidativeamination - 7-5-2011 at 18:57

Quote: Originally posted by Nicodem  
Quote: Originally posted by oxidativeamination  
so in saying that an amide has a very different electron density and charge from an amine, you are saying that it will become pharmacologically inactive?
so convertion to the amide will effectively decrease or disable ability to cross the BBB?
one more question how does the amide-acetyl linkages stabilty affect its bioavailability?

Your lack of pharmacology knowledge is only surpassed by the lack of chemical knowledge. This is an honest warning: Please start reading the books and articles first, or else you are going to hurt yourself.


would you care to elaborate on this warning?
i fail to see how linking an acetyl group to the nitrogen makes this compound so much more dangerous than straight PEA.
the material seemed on crystallization to be hygroscopic.
it drew moisture from the air to form a clear sludge.
thus the idea was abandoned.
i am interested to hear how this substance would've been so dangerous though??

Sedit - 7-5-2011 at 20:07

You fail to see it because of your lack of understanding in the area of pharmacokinetics. The amine has specific charge, metabolism, and docking into the receptors meaning it could possibly be nothing what you would expect it to be. Are you sure the amide of Phenylethylamine does not inhibit any important enzymes in your body, cause irreversible binding? If not I would highly not suggest undertaking such a project till its understood better.

Also look into Peptide bonding to better understand the question on how the amide forms.

Your amide will undergo hydrolysis to yeild the amine meaning I doubt you will find very much difference in pharmacokinetics between this and normal PEA. I have heard of various Amino acids being acetylated to increase bioavalibility but I have not been able to test these claims. I have recently considered testing this with L-DOPA but have not studied it enough to follow thru yet. I would feel better starting with acetylated Phenylalanine before attempting it with Levo-DOPA.

Would taking the acetate salt of Phenylalanine and slowly heating it to drive of H2O form the amide? I would think so but all references I find suggest using Acetic Anhydride to perform the reaction.

Sedit - 8-5-2011 at 10:03

You can see here in these Pubchem results that the compound your looking for is in no way biologically active in the desired fashion.

http://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/assay/assay.cgi?aid=504651 shows that they are inactive as potentiators of the Dopaminic channels.

Here is the results of the active compounds tested in the experiment