Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Fast-Burning Fuel Goop

Striker - 4-3-2024 at 09:05

I'd like to formulate some kind of goop that's easy to ignite and burns rather quickly. Napalm and Sterno come to mind, but I'm not trying to burn down forests/villages and would rather it dispense its energy much more quickly (~10s) (and more cleanly if possible) without losing most of the specific energy.

I've considered simply adding liquid (like NM) or solid (like KClO4) oxidizer to a traditional napalm mix, but the solubilities/homogeneity may be an issue as well as reduction in specific energy since it's drawing less of the O from the air.

Perhaps a gelling agent (like Ca Acetate) with a liquid blend (like NM/CH3OH)? My knowledge of gelling agents and which may be appropriate is limited though, and I'm looking for more of a "goop" than a gel.

I'm not the experienced professional that many of you in this subforum are, but I'd appreciate a tip or some direction on what to read up on. Thanks!

dettoo456 - 4-3-2024 at 10:58

Thermobarics or FAEs (in this case SLUFAEs) only burn quickly or detonate because of the manner in which they are released and initiated. They have an extremely high surface area after bursting so that they can easily react with atmospheric O2. Introducing a polymer and simply igniting it, not dispersing quickly beforehand, will not yield very fast burning at all, simply due to its poor O2 scavenging ability. Napalm in itself does burn quicker when dispersed like a FAE but on its own it burns slow like you mentioned.

Whatever material you find, it’d need a low glass transition temp, a moderately high bp but high flammability solvent, and an energetic fuel-rich compound to burn. I can’t really think of anything to fit that bill. Maybe a Napalm B mixed with CuO/Al thermite, but that’s kind of a mess in its own way. If you have money and time to burn, then fancy shit like PGA or PGN (polyglycidyl azide and nitrate polymer) mixed with DANP or DANH, or any other linear nitramine or azide, could prove useful.

Or a plasticized ZIP Fuel.


[Edited on 4-3-2024 by dettoo456]

Striker - 4-3-2024 at 18:48

Hm... Thanks for all that explanation (had to look up some of those weapons-related terms). Gives me a decent idea what properties to look for.

Indeed surface area sounds like a challenge. I'll read up on some of what you referenced. At the very least, shouldn't be beyond my capabilities to experiment with napalm/thermite blend in small quantities.

I'd never heard of those high-energy jet fuels. Will look into them also. Thanks!

averageaussie - 4-3-2024 at 19:13

what on earth is plasticised ZIP fuel and how can I make it?

OneEyedPyro - 5-3-2024 at 02:15

Burn rate and volatility go hand in hand. Using a mixture of a solid oxidizer with a liquid fuel doesn't really work that way, the fuel will not reach high enough temperatures to decompose the oxidizer and free up its oxygen.

Something like gelled pentane would give a fast burn due to its low boiling point. A person could even make gelled butane if they wanted.

Striker - 5-3-2024 at 06:00

Quote: Originally posted by averageaussie  
what on earth is plasticised ZIP fuel and how can I make it?


Assumably, one could plasticize the ZIP fuel by reacting it with a polymer the same way that napalm works.

ZIP fuel itself is a blend of typical hydrocarbon fuel and some borane species. I'd never heard of boranes before now, though they sound pretty awesome. But they're no longer commercially-produced so we'd have to make our own. Sounds like a fairly difficult synthesis, but perfect for such experimentalism.

Striker - 5-3-2024 at 06:02

Quote: Originally posted by OneEyedPyro  
Burn rate and volatility go hand in hand. Using a mixture of a solid oxidizer with a liquid fuel doesn't really work that way, the fuel will not reach high enough temperatures to decompose the oxidizer and free up its oxygen.

Something like gelled pentane would give a fast burn due to its low boiling point. A person could even make gelled butane if they wanted.


Hm. Thanks. Will look into pentane also.

OneEyedPyro - 5-3-2024 at 14:15

Quote: Originally posted by Striker  
Quote: Originally posted by OneEyedPyro  
Burn rate and volatility go hand in hand. Using a mixture of a solid oxidizer with a liquid fuel doesn't really work that way, the fuel will not reach high enough temperatures to decompose the oxidizer and free up its oxygen.

Something like gelled pentane would give a fast burn due to its low boiling point. A person could even make gelled butane if they wanted.


Hm. Thanks. Will look into pentane also.


Something else to consider are solid fuel oxidizer mixtures that can be molten like rocket candy for example. Nasty, hot burning stuff that may as well be white phosphorus if a deflagrating glob of it lands on you.

EF2000 - 6-3-2024 at 11:20

I have two suggestions, one more safe and other more insane:
  1. Pyrogel - thickened fuel with magnesium powder and a bit of oxidizer. Burns quicker than napalm, reaches temperature about 1600°C.

    For example, composition "PTV" is 60% petrol, 5% polybutadiene thickener, 28% Mg powder and 6% sodium nitrate (well dryed, I guess). I think that more amateur-friendly thickener - polystyrene in acetone - will work too. See PATR 2700, 8: P501
  2. TPA - "thickened pyrophoric agent" - triethylaluminium with thickener. It's pyrophoric, burns quickly and can reach temperatures up to 2300°C. Thickener is polyisobutylene (PIB), 6% usually. But with 1% PIB, it burns so intense that fireball can cause damage by thermal radiation.

    Dilution with solvent, like n-hexane, makes TPA non-pyrophoric until diluent evaporates. See PATR 2700, 8: P503

Striker - 11-3-2024 at 12:23

Quote: Originally posted by EF2000  
I have two suggestions, one more safe and other more insane:
  1. Pyrogel - thickened fuel with magnesium powder and a bit of oxidizer. Burns quicker than napalm, reaches temperature about 1600°C.

    For example, composition "PTV" is 60% petrol, 5% polybutadiene thickener, 28% Mg powder and 6% sodium nitrate (well dryed, I guess). I think that more amateur-friendly thickener - polystyrene in acetone - will work too. See PATR 2700, 8: P501
  2. TPA - "thickened pyrophoric agent" - triethylaluminium with thickener. It's pyrophoric, burns quickly and can reach temperatures up to 2300°C. Thickener is polyisobutylene (PIB), 6% usually. But with 1% PIB, it burns so intense that fireball can cause damage by thermal radiation.

    Dilution with solvent, like n-hexane, makes TPA non-pyrophoric until diluent evaporates. See PATR 2700, 8: P503


Both very interesting indeed. Input appreciated.

The Mg/oxidizer into plasticized petrol is very similar to the cupric thermite into traditional napalm suggested by One-eyed above. I'll try this line of experimentation first. Definitely safer and less exotic.

[Edited on 3-11-2024 by Striker]