Sciencemadness Discussion Board - No DCM in Paint Strippers

No DCM in Paint Strippers

Slash - 4-4-2011 at 12:32

So this question is for European Chemists..

I currently live in France and am in the process of distilling some DCM for paint strippers, at least i wanted to do so but found none that contained DCM. I litteraly looked at hundreds of MSDS and they nearly all use Butanone instead. I did some snooping around and found out the the EU had issued a law that stated that all paint strippers containing more the 1% of DCM had to be removed from the marked by December of 2010 and that professionals couldnt use them after June 2012 IIRC.

So here's my question. What do you guys use to distill DCM? I read somewhere that automotive solvent could be used like Brake Cleaners but I can only find 400 mL spray bottles...
Preferably a well-known/ international brand i could find here in France.

Cheers

[Edited on 5-4-2011 by Slash]

redox - 4-4-2011 at 16:20

Is simply buying it pure not an option? (are you on a budget?)

peach - 4-4-2011 at 17:23

I'm in the UK and haven't noticed this. Maybe it's coming through, because they usually give people time to clear out stock; if a chain has bought thousands of litres of it that's a lot of capital investment to bin.

But I can certainly buy strippers that'll have DCM in them from pretty much any DIY place at the moment.

I would like to see more comparison between it's carcinogenic properties and that of benzene to better gauge just how bad it is. I have used large amounts of it in the past for stripping things.

Quote:

5.5 Evaluation

There is inadequate evidence in humans for the carcinogenicity of dichloromethane.

There is sufficient evidence in experimental animals for the carcinogenicity of dichloromethane.

Overall evaluation

Dichloromethane is possibly carcinogenic to humans (Group 2B).

Quote:

WHICH PRODUCTS WILL BE BANNED?

ALL paint removers or graffiti removers containing DCM (Methylene Chloride), a key ingredient of 90% of all paint removers sold, would be banned by the EU legislation. including our products Strippers NB-410, NB-510, NB-610 and G-102, and those of ALL other manufacturers - including the most well-known brand, Nitromors®.
Nitromors® is a registered trade mark of Henkel UK Ltd

WHY BAN 90% OF PAINT REMOVERS SOLD IN THE UK?

Our own government in the UK opposes the EU ban and considers no further regulation of DCM to be necessary BUT if it is passed into EU law, our government will be obliged to enforce it in the UK.

Quote:

EU sidesteps Reach to ban paint stripping solvent

The ban, already adopted by the European Commission, received final approval from the European Parliament on 14 January, which overwhelmingly supported the resolution (674 votes in favour, 17 against and 8 abstentions).

However, Wolfgang Marquardt, manager of the Brussels-based European Chlorinated Solvent Association (ECSA), told Chemistry World that the industry believes dichloromethane (DCM) should have been considered within the EU's new Reach framework for assessing chemical safety, which would have first required comparative risk assessments of alternatives before such a far-reaching ban could have been instituted across Europe. Marquardt says alternative paint stripping substances and methods, such as blow torches and sand-blasting, might be just as hazardous as DCM.

But Carl Schlyter, a Swedish member of the European Parliament who helped draft of the DCM resolution, told Chemistry World that he and other supporters of the DCM ban specifically wanted to avoid referring the issue to the new Helsinki-based European Chemicals Agency (ECHA), responsible for administering Reach.

The agency has been swamped with around 2 million chemical registrations, 10 times more than expected

, says Schlyter, a member of the Green party. If the proposed DCM ban had been referred to ECHA, it would take 'several years' to reach an outcome, he says, adding: 'We should ban DCM now.'

[Critical evaluation]Get t' fuck Schlyter. One rule for me, one for everyone else eh? How could they be so confident in their ability to regulate the market, yet misjudge it's audience by an order of magnitude?[Critical evaluation]

Quote:

Methylene chloride: Advantages and Drawbacks of Possible Market Restrictions in the EU
Client: DG III of the European Commission, Brussels, Belgium
Date: November 1999
Authors: Dr. A. Tucker and Ir. L. Ph. Simons (TNO-STB, Holland) : Link
This report (136 pages) describes exposure and risks of DCM in paint strippers, adhesives and aerosols. - Despite a total use of 45,000 tons of DCM paint strippers in the EU, there are only 150-180 people involved in their production

(p.65) - Alternative paint strippers can easily be produced on the same production lines as DCM paint strippers, with very little modification (p. 65) - Interviewed professional users don‘t foresee major problems should DCM be banned (p. 62).

Quote:

EASCR conclusion:
SCHER’s opinion on the ETVAREAD report was very critical of the quality of the measurements and the data presented, whilst they also commented that there is no evidence of a reducing effect of vapour retardants (p. 4). In all tests, the acute exposure concentration of 193 and 300 ppm DCM in air were exceeded, in most cases with concentrations between 400 and 1700 ppm, with an air exchange rate of 4, which is also higher than normal (p. 4). SCHER points out that the greatest effect from short term inhalation exposure to DCM seems to be on the CNS (central nervous system), and 193 and 300 ppm DCM in air gave neurobehavioral changes in humans after 1.5 to 3 hours (p. 6, 8 + 9).

EASCR conclusion:
Even in 2006, the EU Commission seems still to be of the opinion that DCM paint strippers are a subject of debate mainly between UK and Germany, whereby the UK and its industry strongly supports DCM paint removers as safe for private and professional users and Germany is seen as the principle opponent. EASCR wonders why those member states, which have already let their position be known, seem to have been forgotten. In the above, we have the example of the Danish industry taking responsibility for its decisions, based on the knowledge they have acquried on the applications and the products used.

[Edited on 5-4-2011 by peach]

smuv - 4-4-2011 at 17:50

In rodents at least, benzene is about an order of magnitude more carcinogenic than CH2Cl2. Still, it can kill you in the long run, I avoid DCM when I can.

http://potency.berkeley.edu/chempages/METHYLENE%20CHLORIDE.h...
http://potency.berkeley.edu/chempages/BENZENE.html

Slash - 4-4-2011 at 22:57

@ Redox: Yes yes i am on a budget ^^ Though if it comes down to it i think thats what'll do. But there's got to bet something else i can distill DCM from !

@peach: Lucky you man cause i did all the DIY places in my area and none of them had strippers that contained DCM. Nearly all of the labels proudly stated : "Product containing NO DCM "
FML

[Edited on 5-4-2011 by Slash]

Slash - 6-4-2011 at 12:58

Anyone? Any idea where i can get DCM other than paint strippers?

No DCM in Paint Strippers

MountainMan - 6-4-2011 at 13:21

Try a hobby shop. It's used as a plastic solvent / adhesive (at least in the USA) for model building. Depending upon the store, a 100 ml bottle costs about $ 3.50.

Slash - 9-4-2011 at 10:48

Ok thanks MountainMan! i'll try to take a look at some of those... Anwhere else?

dann2 - 1-3-2012 at 20:01

Went into my local hardware store today for some 'Nitromors' paint stripper and was told it was being banned (as the thread states). The stuff contains Methylene Chloride.
The shop had some old stock. Stock up while you can............

Mailinmypocket - 1-3-2012 at 20:24

I have ordered pure DCM from Biostain on eBay a few times, they are UK based/ship internationally except to Australia, and I usually receive it within two weeks in Canada.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dichloromethane-99-5-Pure-1-Litre-1L...

[Edited on 2-3-2012 by Mailinmypocket]

Hexavalent - 2-3-2012 at 13:45

I agree . . .most of my reagents that I buy online come from this supplier. Every single order is very well packaged, the containers used are of very high quality and the labels are very informative and clear. Their prices are fair and excellent and shipping is very good, even for things like 70% nitric acid.