Sciencemadness Discussion Board

70% HNO3 gloves?

mewrox99 - 31-3-2011 at 03:25

Hi guys.

I've just ordered some 70% HNO3. I am curious what sort of gloves I should ware.

I assume thin latex gloves aren't enough? Rubber kitchen gloves? Nitrile?

Jor - 31-3-2011 at 03:43

I almost never wear gloves, because it makes your sense of touch go down, making accidents more likely to happen. You will feel when you touch the acid, and thus you can immediately rinse it off. Never wear latex or nitrile with fuming nitric acid, these gloves will ignite on contact with the acid within 10 seconds, causing severe burns.

I only wear gloves when I handle potent carcinogens like dichromates (this does not include volatile carcingenic solvents like chloroform, these will evaporate very quickly on your skin and absorption is minimal). Also I use gloves when handling bromine, cyanide salts, conc. H2SO4 and mercury and lead compounds.

[Edited on 31-3-2011 by Jor]

Arthur Dent - 31-3-2011 at 03:48

From my experience... :o

Good ol' latex gloves don't resist much to conc. Nitric Acid, but just enough time if you spill it on your hands to stop what you're doing, remove the gloves and throw them away. About a year ago, a big drop landed on my hands when I was pipetting some 70% HNO<sub>3</sub> and I saw the latex changing color rapidly. Pulled the glove quickly. The acid had not penetrated the glove yet and my skin was intact! Yay! :D

Here's an interesting guide:
http://www.ansellpro.com/download/Ansell_7thEditionChemicalR...

Robert

hkparker - 31-3-2011 at 06:24

I've been told butyl gloves are the only ones that have ok resistance to conc. Nitric acid or rfna

The WiZard is In - 31-3-2011 at 11:05

Quote: Originally posted by mewrox99  
Hi guys.

I've just ordered some 70% HNO3. I am curious what sort of gloves I should ware.

I assume thin latex gloves aren't enough? Rubber kitchen gloves? Nitrile?

Sorry I can't resist.

Try http://justfuckinggoogleit.com/






























































or http://msds.chem.ox.ac.uk/glovesbychemical.html

grndpndr - 5-4-2011 at 00:01

I have a perfectly acceptable and $ pair of very hvy duty chem resistant glovers I cant wear safely because they dont allow me to grasp any containers that have hurtful materials in them.There simply to bulky to be safe,if I were handling 55gallon drums sure but not the normally sized glassware in the home lab up to 2l are dangerously hard to grasp.Instead I always keep a half gallon of sodium bicarbonate solution within reach as well as a 5gall bucket of fresh water and the hose running outside my makeshift garage lab.

For gloves and temporary chem. protection until I can hopefully see rather than feel I have a problem and submerge my hands etc in bicarb and rinse with water I wear a pair maybe 2 of the nitrile gloves along with a pair of wellfitting cotton gloves,Im partial to the type with the rubber dots woven in they seem to grasp things better and you have some heat protection from hot glassware.

The nitrile gloves can be liberated from the Drs office along with some handy wood tongue depressors,smaller wooden splints perhaps 1/4x8 x 1/8 and finally (6in) long wood handled cotton q tip like objects .

No I dont liberate em the Doc will give some to me for the asking,very handy and god knows a drs visit isnt cheap! a few gloves and few cents worth of supplys isnt gonna break em!:(

[Edited on 5-4-2011 by grndpndr]

[Edited on 5-4-2011 by grndpndr]

Panache - 5-4-2011 at 00:45

use physcokinesis, it really is the only safe way to handle such items

grndpndr - 5-4-2011 at 11:15

Laughed and laughed till thought id die!!!!:D



HydroCarbon - 5-4-2011 at 18:18

Wear gloves! Nitrile preferably. Despite what the non glove wearers say, a regular lab/examination nitrile glove will not cause you to lose any appreciable amount of tactility. It will however give you a precious few seconds (I emphasize few!) of protection if you do spill something on your hand. Be aware of what gets on your hand, and the second you realize a hazardous substance has made contact peel off the glove from the bottom in an inverting fashion.

The glove will slow down absorption of most things for at least for a second or two. Much better than the instant damage you get from direct skin contact!

hkparker - 5-4-2011 at 18:42

Quote: Originally posted by HydroCarbon  
Wear gloves! Nitrile preferably.


Nitrile gloves and RFNA (although I know mewrox99 was asking about 70% HNO3, not RFNA):

<iframe sandbox title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/UHNkil-zOaI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Quote: Originally posted by HydroCarbon  
Despite what the non glove wearers say, a regular lab/examination nitrile glove will not cause you to lose any appreciable amount of tactility. It will however give you a precious few seconds (I emphasize few!) of protection if you do spill something on your hand. Be aware of what gets on your hand, and the second you realize a hazardous substance has made contact peel off the glove from the bottom in an inverting fashion.

The glove will slow down absorption of most things for at least for a second or two. Much better than the instant damage you get from direct skin contact!


I agree that gloves should be worn most of the time, my point is just that its important to know what kind of gloves to wear (apparently not nitrile when working with RFNA :o) or when its safer not to use them (some times when using high heat). In most cases however I'll take the few seconds of safety gloves give me, just know the special situations where its less safe.

Jianaran - 6-4-2011 at 05:11

I'd like to chime in with no gloves too, on the proviso that you're working with relatively small amounts. I've spilt up to probably 5ml at a time WFNA (freshly prepared, just starting to go yellow-ish) onto my hands, and whilst you can certainly feel the heat after a few seconds it shouldn't take you more than 3-5 seconds to wash it off. It'll make your skin go yellow and a bit hard and burnt, but that seems to clear up in a week or two. If I was working with 100mL+ or so quantities I'd certainly consider butyl gloves, but less than that and you should be fine.

Nitrlie gloves - Yeabut

The WiZard is In - 6-4-2011 at 12:06

They do come alot thicker then 4 mil. exam gloves.
22 mil ... perhaps thicker.

www.galeton.com among others.

Your search for ""NITRILE GLOVES"" produces 59 item(s).

NB - Use quotation marks.

hkparker - 6-4-2011 at 13:49

Quote: Originally posted by The WiZard is In  
They do come alot thicker then 4 mil. exam gloves.
22 mil ... perhaps thicker.


I have these knit lined (fabric on the inside) nitrile gloves I use for really really dangerous stuff. Im not sure how thick they are but they are very thick and go up to my shoulders.

The WiZard is In - 7-4-2011 at 07:12

Quote: Originally posted by hkparker  

I have these knit lined (fabric on the inside) nitrile gloves I use for
really really dangerous stuff. Im not sure how thick they are but
they are very thick and go up to my shoulders.

The Amateur Experimenter can never be toooo - Good looking -
Rich - Safe. A nitrile rubber condom and cod piece perhaps.


djh
----
Reminds me of a short
story by Mark Twain -
The Giant Cod

hissingnoise - 7-4-2011 at 07:55

Quote:
A nitrile rubber condom and . . .

Ngl as lube . . . ?
Long live Priapus!

The WiZard is In - 7-4-2011 at 16:03

Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  
Quote:
A nitrile rubber condom and . . .

Ngl as lube . . . ?
Long live Priapus!



The God of procreation!

As a lube? I am not planning on expanding on this....
in the back of my mind is the recollection that -- was mentioned
in a local NYC year ago "The Crisco Disco" (In the Village?).

Whatever rocks your boat.

THE LANCET 1997 349:11-14

A randomised, prospective, double-blind, placebo -controlled trial of glyceryl
trinitrate ointment in treatment of anal fissure

Jonathan N Lund, John H Scholefield

Summary
Background Anal fissure is most commonly treated surgically by internal anal
sphincterotomy. However, there is some concern over the effects of this
procedure on continence. Nitric oxide donors such as glyceryl trinitrate (GTN)
have been shown to cause a reversible chemical sphincterotomy capable of
healing fissures in a small series of cases. This study reports a prospective,
randomised, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial to test the hypothesis that
topical GTN is the best first-line treatment for chronic anal fissure.

Methods 80 consecutive patients were randomised to receive treatments with
topical 0.2% GTN ointment or placebo. Maximum anal resting pressure (MARP)
was measured with a constantly perfused side-hole catheter before and after the
first application of trial ointment. Anodermal blood flow was measured during
manometry by laser Doppler flowmetry. After initial treatments, patients were
given a supply of ointment (either GTN or placebo) to be applied to the lower
anal canal twice daily. Patients were reviewed 2-weekly. At the initial and follow
up visits patients were asked to record pain experienced on defaecation on a
linear analogue pain score. Endpoints were healing of the fissure or condition
after 8 weeks of treatment.

Findings After 8 weeks, healing was observed in 26/38 (68%) patients treated
with GTN and in 3/39 (8%) patients treated with placebo (p<0.0001, X2 test).
Linear analogue pain score fell significantly in both groups after 2 weeks of
treatment. This fall was maintained in those treated with GTN but pain scores
returned to pre-treatment values by 4 weeks on treatment with placebo. MARP
fell significantly from a mean of 115.9 (SID 31-6) to 75.9 (30-1) cm H20
(p<0-001, Student's paired t-test) in patients treated with GTN but no change
was seen in MARP after placebo. Anodermal blood flow measured by laser
Doppler flowmetry significantly increased after application of GTN ointment but
was unaffected by placebo.

Interpretation Topical GTN provides rapid, sustained relief of pain in patients with
anal fissure. Over two-thirds of patients treated in this way avoided surgery
which would otherwise have been required for healing. Long-term follow up is
needed to assess the risk of recurrent fissure in patients with GTN.



Panache - 7-4-2011 at 18:26

'MARP MARP' ,barked the hair-lipped dog

[Edited on 8-4-2011 by Panache]

hissingnoise - 8-4-2011 at 05:13

Quote: Originally posted by The WiZard is In  

As a lube? I am not planning on expanding on this....

Er! Quite!
Wetting both surfaces . . . more bang for . . .
And two headaches!

The WiZard is In - 8-4-2011 at 07:22

Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  
Quote: Originally posted by The WiZard is In  

As a lube? I am not planning on expanding on this....

Er! Quite!
Wetting both surfaces . . . more bang for . . .
And two headaches!


I was not planning on expaning the connection between Crisco
and condom lube, however —

“The lubricant, typically the cultic Crisco, must be copious.”[5] In
fact, Crisco was so synonomus with gay sex that discos and bars
around the world took on the name, such as Crisco Disco in New
York City, which was one of the premiere clubs during the 1970s
and early 1980s. Other clubs or bathhouses, such as Club Z in
Seattle, even featured murals with Crisco. Thus, Crisco was
conversely also one of many things that led to the formation of gay
identities during the 20th century.

http://www.columbia.edu/~sf2220/TT2007/web-content/Pages/dre...


Byda .... NG is habit forming!


Cardiac Arrest in an Explosives Factory Worker Due to
Withdrawal From Nitroglycerin Exposure
American Journal of Industrial Medicine 15: 719-722 (1989)
Amnon Ben-David, MD, MSc
The Institute for Occupational Health and the Department of Epidemiology
and Preventive Medicine, Tel Aviv University, Sackler Faculty of Medicine.
Tel Aviv, Israel.
Accepted for publication February 16, 1988.


A 34-year-old munitions worker suffered an unexplained cardiac arrest on a
Sunday morning. In retrospect, the cardiac arrest as well as previous
complaints of chest pains during weekends fit the syndrome of withdrawal
from occupational exposure to nitroglycerin.

Key words: occupational exposure, nitroglycerin withdrawal, cardiovascular
disturbances

INTRODUCTION

Munitions and explosives workers exposed to nitroglycerin (NG) and/or nitro-
glycol had already been described and documented as a group at risk by the
end of the nineteenth century [Darlington, 1890]. Flushes, headaches, and
palpitations are common symptoms in workers newly exposed to NG, but
symptoms disappear in most after a period of adaptation. The adaptation to
NG, however, creates its own problems, as cessation of exposure to NG can
cause withdrawal symptoms. The occurrence of weekend ischernic cardiac
episodes in NG-exposed munitions workers, ranging in severity from attacks
of angina pectoris to sudden death, has also been documented [Carmichael
and Lieben, 1963; Lund et al., 1968; Lange et al., 1972].

Although work practices in the munitions and explosives industry have im-
proved since the nineteenth century, workers can still be exposed to NG
compounds through inhalation or skin contact, with the associated risks, as
illustrated in the following report.

CASE REPORT
Medical History

The patient, a 34-year-old man, had been employed in the manufacture of
high explosives for ten years. For the past three years he had been
complaining of upper abdominal pains radiating to the left side of the chest,
which usually appeared on weekends. The patient was seen on several such
occasions at the emergency admissions clinic of the regional hospital where
clinical examination, ECG. and serum enzyme studies repeatedly yielded
negative results. The patient was always discharged with probable diagnoses
of indigestion, neurotic personality, and the like. He was referred to the
cardiology department of a central hospital for ambulatory evaluation which
also yielded negative results. Blood pressure measurements recorded on
various occasions over a six-year period up to six months prior to the index
event were 110/80, 120/90, 130/80, 140/80, 125/80 mmHg, with a heart rate
range of 70-80 beats/min.

Early on a Sunday morning, before going to work, the patient suddenly
collapsed. A mobile intensive care unit was summoned and, according to its
records, arrived 8 minutes later and found the patient in a state of cardiac
arrest. After 30 minutes of vigorous resuscitation, spontaneous breathing,
pulse, and blood pressure returned, but the patient remained in a coma. In
this state he was taken to a regional hospital where no apparent cause was
found for the cardiac arrest or the coma. Blood samples were also sent to a
toxicological laboratory, where the usual screening in coma cases yielded
negative results. The patient was transferred on the same day to the
neurological department of a major hospital for further evaluation and
treatment. Repeated examinations and tests, including a brain CT scan,
provided no etiological clues, and the coma was considered to be a sequel to
the cardiac arrest.

Two days later, right herniparesis, appeared, which was explained by an
angiographically demonstrated thrombosed left posterior cerebral artery.

In the course of a month in the neurological ward, the patient partially
recuperated and was subsequently transferred to a rehabilitation hospital with
the diagnosis of "Unexplained cardiac arrest in a healthy young man, with
severe brain damage following successful cardiopulmonary resuscitation."

Occupational History

The patient had been employed for ten years before the event as an unskilled
laborer in the manufacture of explosives. In his work he was in daily contact
with NG, through manual handling of the final explosive "dough." According to
the safety regulations and work practices in the factory, protection was
provided by the use of gloves.

DISCUSSION

The major event leading to the severe neurological disability of the patient as
apparently the cardiac arrest he suffered on a Sunday morning. During the
events described above, the possible association with the patient's
occupation was not recognized by the various medical specialists involved,
and the issue was raised again in the course of a workers’ compensation
lawsuit, when expert opinion was sought. In retrospect, the case fits the NG
withdrawal symptoms described in the literature [Carmichael and Lieben,
1963; Lund et al., 1968; Daum, 1983]. There are two stages in the
development of symptoms in workers exposed to NG. In the first stage
workers react to the vasodilatine effects of NG by experiencing flushes,
headaches, and palpitations. In most cases these symptoms gradually
disappear, their disappearance explained by an adaptive enhanced
sympathetic activity [Lange et al., 1972]. In many workers, a second stage
occurs as a result of their withdrawal from NG exposure on weekends. Their
acquired tolerance to NG is lost during the weekend and a severe headache
develops on their return to work on Monday. This was known to NG workers
since the nineteenth century, who, to avoid the Monday headache, used to
insert a strip of NG under their hatbands so that skin absorption of NG would
carry them through the weekend [Daum, 1983]. In some workers,
cardiovascular symptoms may appear during the weekend. They may
complain of chest pains, usually not associated with effort, and generally
without any significant findings in the ECG.

An extreme form of the withdrawal phenomenon is the occurrence of sudden
death after a weekend. This so-called Monday sudden death is also
attributed to an overreaction of the vascular system to tonic stimuli, including
coronary artery spasm, resulting in myocardial infarction and/or cardiac arrest
[Lange et al., 1972].

The case described fits the classical description of the NG withdrawal
syndrome very well. We have a record of chest pains appearing on
weekends, with no cardiac pathology, and we have a "Monday sudden death"
(the occurrence of cardiac arrest in this case on a Sunday morning reflects
the fact that in Israel the weekend starts on Friday afternoon and Sunday is
the first working day of the week). The prompt response of the mobile
intensive care unit and the successful resuscitation converted this case from
a fatal one into one of severe neurological disability.

COMMENTS

The case serves as a reminder of several important points.

1 . The availability and use of protective measures in the explosives industry
is not an absolute guarantee against exposure to NG.
2. Although NG withdrawal symptoms have been recognized as an
occupational problem, the introduction of dosing strategies for the provision of
steady-state therapeutical NG levels (e.g., transdermal NG patches) could
lead to similar phenomena in clinical practice [Abrams, 1988].
3. The lack of awareness on the part of various specialists to the possible
association between the patient's complaints and his occupational exposure
to NG is probably a reflection of the low priority given to occupational
medicine in all levels of medical education. As a result of this low priority,
many medical schools do not teach occupational medicine at all, and those
that do allocate only a few hours to the subject. It is not surprising, therefore,
that most medical practitioners of all specialties have a low degree of
sensitivity to the interrelationship of work and health.
4. A survey (by the author) of several well-known and commonly used
medical textbooks, as well as textbooks of cardiology, showed that no
mention was made of NG-associated ischernic cardiac problems. This
omission has its effect on both medical students and medical graduates of all
levels, for whom textbooks are usually the first source of reference.
5. Even with better medical school teaching of occupational medicine, and
the appropriate textbook references, qualified occupational physicians should
be available and used as consultants by all medical disciplines in the same
manner that other specialities are consulted.

REFERENCES

Abrams 1 (1988): A reappraisal of nitrate therapy. JAMA 259:396-401.
Carmichael P, Licben J (1963): Sudden death in explosives workers. Arch
Environ Health 7:424-439.
Darlington T (1890): The effect of the products of high explosives, dynamite
and nitro-glycerin on the human system. Med Rec 38:661.
Daum S (1983): Nitroglycerin and alkyl nitrates. In Rom WN (ed):
"Environmental and Occupational Medicine." Boston: Little, Brown, pp
639-648.
Lange RL, Reid MS, Tresch DD (1972): Nonatheromatous ischemic heart
disease following withdrawal from chronic industrial nitroglycerin exposure.
Circulation 46:666-678.
Lund RP, Haggendal J, Johnson G (1968): Withdrawal symptoms in workers
exposed to nitroglycerin. Br J Ind Med 25:136-138.