Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Experimental synthesis of Trinitrofructose

Experimental synthesis of Trinitrofructose

Energetics-testin - 21-10-2022 at 18:52

Alright im gonna start with the synthesis that I did and then I'll explain its properties and technical applications.

2 ml HNO3 (75%)

2,2 ml H2SO4

0,35G Fructose (Powdered)

First I mixed the acids,it was kept below 10c

Then I added small doses of powdered fructose

After the first addition a small clump of material formed

The mix was kept at 5c for 14 hours

After 14 hours.. I dumped the solution in 300ml of cold water.

After that I filtered it.

Then I cleaned it with a sodium carbonate solution.

The product was dried for 2hours in a dehydrator at 35c

Final yield was 0.24 g of Trinitrofructose

----------

THOUGHTS AND APPLICATIONS

Alright well for people wondering.. it is energetic but its not capable of detonating..

However TNF does deflagrate when heated.

TNF is similar in texture to semi-cured epoxy so it can be used as a plastisizer.

Some TNF was mixed with crude ETN and then tested,rseults:deflagrates even faster but it melts before deflagrating,confined test were "successful" it did detonate.

Overall thoughts:quite easy to make and its a good plastisizer that is also "active" and not just dead weight.

Feedback is appreciated.

Videos of the properties of trinitrofructose mixed with ETN and P-DDNP

Energetics-testin - 5-11-2022 at 15:32

TNF for me is maybe one of the best "active' plasticizer, its a very good plasticizer capable of taking in a lot of material before becoming "dry", its also capable of deflagrating on its own and is quite easy to make.

With 0.150g of TriNitroFructose I was able to mix in 0,870g of Crude ETN

The results were quite impressive, the malleable ball of TNF&ETN was capable of detonating from a strong hammer blow and detonated when its was confined and heated.

Detonation by heat was inconsistent when the charge had less than 0.051g of TNF&ETN.Only 1 out of 3 detonated.

Tests with more than 0.051g detonated every time they were heated when confined in AL foil.

A test was done with 0,12g of Tnf&ETN mix and a "detonator" containing 0.05g of ETN.The results were quite impressive I felt a big shockwave and the cans around were gone, the metal sheet where it was set was dented but didnt penetrate.

Attachment: TNF ETN hammer bam test.MOV (2.9MB)
This file has been downloaded 321 times

Attachment: tnf p ddnp.MP4 (476kB)
This file has been downloaded 256 times

[Edited on 6-11-2022 by Energetics-testin]

ManyInterests - 6-11-2022 at 13:58

Sound quite good. I've been looking for an energetic binder that is easy to manufacture. I do have some questions about it.

How sensitive is it on its own? Also if I was to use it as a plasticizer for RDX, how sensitive would the resulting mixture be? RDX is quite stable as we already know.

Do you know how it might react when put into storage or what storage conditions would be good?

This is actually kinda exciting, I'm gonna save your posts. I will definitely be giving TNF a go in the future.

Metacelsus - 7-11-2022 at 08:20

How do you know you actually have trinitrofructose rather than something else?

Fulmen - 7-11-2022 at 09:58

What else could it be with those ingredients? COPE has a short paragraph on fructosan trinitrate "produced by the action of mixed acid at 0-15° on d-fructose".

Energetics-testin - 7-11-2022 at 12:58

Sorry I forgot those 2 videos..

@manyinterests:TNF on its own is very insensitive to shock and friction.

RDX should work perfectly fine.

For long time storage I still don't have info sorry, but 1 week in the open air dries the TNF and it needs to be heated to 42° to get it back to its ''normal'' semi-cured epoxy texture...energetic properties and sensitivity was the same as normal.

In a container ,the TNF stayed the same and didn't dry out nor became more wet. in my opinion I think that TNF can be stored in a container for quite a long time before it becomes unusable.

Yeah,im eager to know your thoughts about it...im gonna warn you tho..its quite sticky when its at like 35 c..so have an ice bath close by..its quite insoluble in water so don't worry about losing product when ur cooling it down.

@metacelsus & @Fulmen :Fulmen is right I got the idea to make it via THE COPAE book.

To be honest I don't really know at 100% if its TNF but im 98% sure it is.

Attachment: the charge before detonating test 1.mp4 (3.1MB)
This file has been downloaded 232 times

Attachment: TNF&ETN 0.12g main charge +0.05gETN detonator.mp4 (1.9MB)
This file has been downloaded 245 times

Loptr - 7-11-2022 at 13:03

Quote: Originally posted by Fulmen

What else could it be with those ingredients? COPE has a short paragraph on fructosan trinitrate "produced by the action of mixed acid at 0-15° on d-fructose".

I would guess it could be oxidized into glycolic acid, tartaric acid, and probably a varing mix of nitrate esters. Fructose is a reducing sugar.

[Edited on 7-11-2022 by Loptr]

Herr Haber - 7-11-2022 at 13:21

I'm pretty sure within SM someone reported a pasty / liquid product from the nitration of a polyol. I know that's vague... I can remember which one. Sorry.
If memory serve, target compound was supposed to be solid so that probably was a mix of lower nitrated products.

Is it possible that the same is happening to you ?
Though if your product dries... maybe not.

ManyInterests - 7-11-2022 at 21:00

Quote: Originally posted by Energetics-testin

Sorry I forgot those 2 videos..

@manyinterests:TNF on its own is very insensitive to shock and friction.

RDX should work perfectly fine.

For long time storage I still don't have info sorry, but 1 week in the open air dries the TNF and it needs to be heated to 42° to get it back to its ''normal'' semi-cured epoxy texture...energetic properties and sensitivity was the same as normal.

In a container ,the TNF stayed the same and didn't dry out nor became more wet. in my opinion I think that TNF can be stored in a container for quite a long time before it becomes unusable.

Yeah,im eager to know your thoughts about it...im gonna warn you tho..its quite sticky when its at like 35 c..so have an ice bath close by..its quite insoluble in water so don't worry about losing product when ur cooling it down.

@metacelsus & @Fulmen :Fulmen is right I got the idea to make it via THE COPAE book.

To be honest I don't really know at 100% if its TNF but im 98% sure it is.

So it hardens as it dries, but what if it is mixed with RDX and/or ETN or PETN (or a mixture of these), will it retain any plasticity or will it harden? It wouldn't make for a good plastic explosive if it hardens.

Energetics-testin - 9-11-2022 at 21:28

Quote: Originally posted by Herr Haber

Is it possible that the same is happening to you ?
Though if your product dries... maybe not.

it does dry..but it needs to be out in the open for at least 2 week.

And no I don't think so,but I have nitrated xilitol and my results were pretty much what you are describing..

@ManyInterests when mixing with a powder or crystals it stays very malleable and behaves like semi cured epoxy resin.

From what Ive seen with my experimentation...TNF can absorb 2 times its own weight before it becomes dry and unusable as a plastic explosive.

Loptr - 10-11-2022 at 14:58

Quote: Originally posted by Loptr

Quote: Originally posted by Fulmen

What else could it be with those ingredients? COPE has a short paragraph on fructosan trinitrate "produced by the action of mixed acid at 0-15° on d-fructose".

I would guess it could be oxidized into glycolic acid, tartaric acid, and probably a varing mix of nitrate esters. Fructose is a reducing sugar.

[Edited on 7-11-2022 by Loptr]

Energetics-testin - 25-11-2022 at 14:08

Some test were done with "pure" TNF and it appears to be able to detonate on its own with a good hammer blow, I knew it could detonate with a hammer blow when it is mixed with ETN but did not knew that it could detonate by itself.

Also..TNF after 1 month of storage in the open, it still has the same energetic properties has fresh TNF, The texture is also the same.

For me TNF is a good binder and quite easy and cheap to make,also for me its easier to work with a TNF/ETN mix than powdered ETN..

ManyInterests - 8-12-2022 at 19:17

I ordered some pure granulated fructose to do this experiment.

It's also good that you kept it for one month and it still retained its properties. I am willing to do this experiment. I will make some TNF and I will plasticize some ETN with it and I will store for as long as I can. Maybe a year or longer even and report on it. If you want to join me on this I would find that fascinating.

Also we live fairly close to one another, Energetics-Testin, that's interesting!

Energetics-testin - 9-12-2022 at 11:30

I'm excited to read your thoughts about TNF!

Yeah I had to see if it would be any good after being left untouched for a while.

I will join you in this experiment with pleasure! :cool:

Indeed,that's very interesting!

ManyInterests - 9-12-2022 at 11:52

I'm going to need to go on a long nitric acid making bender. I have a little azeotropic nitric acid left. I need to make another 300ml or so. I need to make more HDN, a little more ETN, and TNF. I hope my potassium nitrate supply is up to snuff! Otherwise I'm going to need to spend another week making basic reagents.

[Edited on 9-12-2022 by ManyInterests]

Energetics-testin - 9-12-2022 at 15:31

Same here,I've been out for 2 weeks

Personnaly I use sodium nitrate made from AN+NAOH or AN+NaCO³

I've been doing that for 2 weeks..my storage space was so empty..it was sad..haha

ManyInterests - 11-12-2022 at 15:49

The ammonium nitrate you use, is it the 34-0-0 stuff or is it the Calcium-Ammonium nitrate you get from cold packs? Cold packs are my only source of nitrates right now. I got plenty of CAN (5kg) that I need to process. While potassium nitrate is great, I noticed I get better yields when making sodium nitrate, so I will probably be making more sodium nitrate than potassium in the future.

I almost completely out of sodium nitrate right now. When I make some nitric acid, I will add what sodium nitrate I have left to the potassium nitrate. As long as the molar mass is good, I don't foresee any problems.

Energetics-testin - 12-12-2022 at 15:48

My ammonium nitrate comes from coldpacks and its normal ammonium nitrate..not the the calcium ammonium nitrate that we normally have here.

I use the cold packs from Primacare

rimacare P.C.P-245,from amazon.

Ive had great success mixing 1:1 strontium nitrate(from road flares) and sodium nitrate when making HN03 via the sodium bisulfate method.

[Edited on 13-12-2022 by Energetics-testin]

ManyInterests - 13-12-2022 at 15:13

I ordered some of those cold packs. I filtered out the insolubles and dried everything, but it didn't burn like ammonium nitrate should. Did I do something wrong?

Energetics-testin - 15-12-2022 at 03:39

Personally,I filter the anticaking agents then I put it on my hot plate at ~150c and when the solution reaches 150-170 the only thing left is pure liquid ammonium nitrate..put it in the freezer to crystalize it.

No..I dont know what happened,sorry

ManyInterests - 15-12-2022 at 07:23

Ok I will try that out with the American cold packs I got.

Energetics-testin - 15-12-2022 at 17:34

Alright,goodluck.

ManyInterests - 17-5-2023 at 00:38

Just resurrecting the thread, since while it took me a few failed orders from amazon, but I finally got a hold of fructose. I am in the middle of basic reagent making, so it'll be a while before I make TNF, but it will be the thing I do after a few other experiments.

Also I got ammonium nitrate cold packs from the US and after just filtering them and getting the anti-caking agents out, I didn't get them to burn. I will remedy this since I got some sodium bisulfate to use to make ammonium nitrate from another nitrate salt (like sodium or potassium nitrate).

Once I get everything going. I want to make some RDX (I have 10g that I made almost a year ago and haven't recrystalized yet! 10g seems too small a quantity to bother with that yet. It hasn't degraded at all and is still snow white) and make plasticized ETN, PETN, and RDX with the stuff and just put them in separate containers and monitor them