Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Swede blow out his apartment with TATP

Swede blow out his apartment with TATP

Swede

MadHatter - 8-10-2022 at 16:59

There was a Swede named "phone" on E & W some years ago. He found out the
hard way not to try to reignite a fuse that went out. When the authorities went
into his place they found piles of AP all over the place. Not a good idea to work
with sensitive primaries. Far too unstable IMHO.

jerry0nim0 - 9-10-2022 at 21:35

Quote: Originally posted by MadHatter

There was a Swede named "phone" on E & W some years ago. He found out the
hard way not to try to reignite a fuse that went out. When the authorities went
into his place they found piles of AP all over the place. Not a good idea to work
with sensitive primaries. Far too unstable IMHO.

You sure that's the story?
I believe that he had an accident in his grandparents attic.
I'm sure the charge went off when handling, not sure why he would light the fuse while inside of the building.
(and it was AP/AN IIRC)

Tsjerk - 10-10-2022 at 00:21

I recall many kilos of AP/AN and preliminary detonation as well. The proof for the amounts and the composition were the photos he was proudly throwing around. The warnings everyone was giving were obviously ignored.

[Edited on 10-10-2022 by Tsjerk]

Mateo_swe - 11-10-2022 at 04:48

3kg of TATP isnt a typical hobby chemist playing around with making some explosives for fun.
I wonder why he made so much of it.

B(a)P - 11-10-2022 at 12:11

There was a guy arrested in Australia for having a similar amount. I remember thinking the same thing when I read that article. 3 kg of TATP is a serious amount. Even worse, this guy had it stashed in public places and a member of the public ultimately found it. The police were called and they assumed it was some type of drug and took it off for testing. When they worked out what it was the entire police station had to be evacuated. Probably not the best procedural approach to dealing with unknown white powders. Also incredibly lucky it wasn't found by kids.
The guy ended up getting about a year of gaol time from memory. In his defence he pleaded that he was just making it for fun and for the entertainment of setting it off and never intended to hurt anyone.

Tsjerk - 11-10-2022 at 13:11

Quote: Originally posted by Mateo_swe

3kg of TATP isnt a typical hobby chemist playing around with making some explosives for fun.
I wonder why he made so much of it.

The reason people make it in these amounts, at least in the Netherlands, is to blow up ATMs and hopefully take the money inside.

Vomaturge - 12-10-2022 at 11:15

Quote: Originally posted by jerry0nim0

Quote: Originally posted by MadHatter

These are two different incidents. The first one happened many years ago and he went to examine the fuse that had “went out.” It had actually slowed its burning to a smolder, maybe because of moisture or being frayed so that it had an uneven burn rate. It of course got going again just in time to kill him.

That’s a case of of of bad equipment, bad safety procedures/no safety procedures, and bad luck, that would have happened regardless of what the charge was made of.

That said, he was doing a number of really sketchy things (including using peroxides) and it’s basically just chance that that mishandling the fuse situation was the first one to catch up to him.

Mateo_swe - 14-10-2022 at 04:48

Quote: Originally posted by Tsjerk

Quote: Originally posted by Mateo_swe

3kg of TATP isnt a typical hobby chemist playing around with making some explosives for fun.
I wonder why he made so much of it.

The reason people make it in these amounts, at least in the Netherlands, is to blow up ATMs and hopefully take the money inside.

I think at least nowadays the ATMs are constructed with this in mind and the chances to get usable money from blowing a big charge in a ATM is very slim.
But maybe someone think its worth a try.

Herr Haber - 14-10-2022 at 10:09

ATM's have been blowing up on a regular basis since the war in former Yougoslavia.

I dont know what you're supposed to do with 3kg of TATP when apparently 100-150 grams of plastic explosive (Semtex I assume) are enough.

paulll - 15-10-2022 at 01:13

Quote: Originally posted by Herr Haber

I dont know what you're supposed to do with 3kg of TATP

Blow yourself up and posthumously trigger knee-jerk legal measures that will inconvenience and annoy as many people as possible?

Tsjerk - 15-10-2022 at 07:55

Quote: Originally posted by Herr Haber

I dont know what you're supposed to do with 3kg of TATP

Blow up 10 ATMs?

[Edited on 15-10-2022 by Tsjerk]

ManyInterests - 22-10-2022 at 20:47

Quote: Originally posted by Tsjerk

Quote: Originally posted by Mateo_swe

3kg of TATP isnt a typical hobby chemist playing around with making some explosives for fun.
I wonder why he made so much of it.

The reason people make it in these amounts, at least in the Netherlands, is to blow up ATMs and hopefully take the money inside.

Wouldn't that also blow up the money? It reminds me of the scene from Robocop where the villain gets pissed at a gang member for blowing up the safe and burning the cash.

and 3KG of TATP is heart attack inducing levels of terror! How did that stuff not explode under its own weight? I am amazed that the police who took that amount thinking it was drugs to their station and not have it blown up. I mean cocaine and heroin are dangerous drugs, but they won't explode if you drop a bag on the floor or smack them with a hammer.

ManyInterests - 22-10-2022 at 20:57

Quote: Originally posted by Herr Haber

ATM's have been blowing up on a regular basis since the war in former Yougoslavia.

I dont know what you're supposed to do with 3kg of TATP when apparently 100-150 grams of plastic explosive (Semtex I assume) are enough.

Some reasons. Firstly they probably don't have access to semtex (or the reagents required to make the RDX and PETN to form its base) or the appropriate detonators. Secondly they are unlikely to use all 3kg at once, since that is clearly overkill.

Still I marvel at how he managed to have 3kg of TATP in one place without it exploding under its own weight. Was it wet TATP or dry?

B(a)P - 23-10-2022 at 11:13

Quote: Originally posted by ManyInterests

Still I marvel at how he managed to have 3kg of TATP in one place without it exploding under its own weight. Was it wet TATP or dry?

If it were carefully made it would be unlikely to explode under its own weight. However, the high volatility and flammability of the compound would have meant there was an extreme risk of unintended initiation. I would guess this is what likely occurred.

Herr Haber - 23-10-2022 at 16:03

When I first heard of Hezbollah using 40+ Kg of the stuff in the 80's I couldnt believe it but it was not completely impossible.
When I read in the news that soldiers on patrol found 600 Kg in a 55 gallons drum under a bridge, *that* I couldnt believe at all.
Volume, density... nah...

B(a)P - 23-10-2022 at 17:47

I don't think you would even get 600 kg into two 55 gallon drums. I certainly wouldn't want to be the guy trying to squeeze that last kg in. Though once the first kg is in the drum it doesn't really matter from then on - same outcome if it inadvertently goes off while you are standing next to it if it is 600 g or 600 kg.

pantone159 - 23-10-2022 at 19:28

I seem to recall some paper posted here where some Israeli researchers characterized a multi-kg crystal of TATP that they made.

ManyInterests - 24-10-2022 at 08:23

Quote: Originally posted by B(a)P

I don't think you would even get 600 kg into two 55 gallon drums. I certainly wouldn't want to be the guy trying to squeeze that last kg in. Though once the first kg is in the drum it doesn't really matter from then on - same outcome if it inadvertently goes off while you are standing next to it if it is 600 g or 600 kg.

Quote:

When I first heard of Hezbollah using 40+ Kg of the stuff in the 80's I couldnt believe it but it was not completely impossible.
When I read in the news that soldiers on patrol found 600 Kg in a 55 gallons drum under a bridge, *that* I couldnt believe at all.
Volume, density... nah...

Hezbollah using TATP really doesn't seem likely. They have the governmental backing of Iran and most of their weapons come from them. They have access to military grade HE and munitions. No need to use something as iffy as TATP when you can easily get semtex and C4.

Herr Haber - 24-10-2022 at 12:23

Quote: Originally posted by ManyInterests

Hezbollah using TATP really doesn't seem likely.

Quote:

When I first heard of Hezbollah using 40+ Kg of the stuff in the 80'sText I couldnt believe it but it was not completely impossible.

I dont think you were born.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Civil_War

Iranian backed terrorists still use TATP nowadays.
Research who are Amir Saadouni Naslameh Naami and specially Assadollah Assadi.
According to Hamas, the price of a TATP explosive belt is around 1500-4300$
Those kind of belts were worn by the terrorists in the 2015 attacks in Paris.
Imagine that, these people could get their hands on AK-12 (in 2015!!!) but not on high explosives.

Furthermore, Hezbollah is trying to distance itself from Iran but what do I know ? I'm certainly talking out of my ass.

Herr Haber - 24-10-2022 at 12:26

Quote: Originally posted by pantone159

I seem to recall some paper posted here where some Israeli researchers characterized a multi-kg crystal of TATP that they made.

Good lord... Ok, now that you have your crystal what do you do with it ?

Any idea what was the purpose of such err... endeavour ?

Bert - 16-11-2022 at 08:48

Quote: Originally posted by jerry0nim0

Quote: Originally posted by MadHatter

Fone died in a hole for installing new lighting at a construction area in a park near his mothers apartment. It was several pounds of ammonium nitrate sensitized with acetone peroxide. He used a wire sparkler for a fuse. He went back when he thought it had failed.

He did it just about the time I hit enter on a message at the old E&W forum telling him what he was doing was insane and he was probably going to die. I still wonder if I could have done something more effective.

BlackPowderBoy - 17-11-2022 at 02:10

Wow...

Laboratory of Liptakov - 17-11-2022 at 05:47

Last sentence from Bert sounds a like some screenplay at ending of Hollywood movie. Horrible story.

Fulmen - 17-11-2022 at 06:06

@Bert: Don't beat yourself up, you really can't fix stupid.

Bert - 17-11-2022 at 07:11

Stupid/young & inexperienced/ignorant.

Two of those CAN sometimes be cured if the first one isn't too extreme.