Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Help to identify a type of chemical warfare

sarinox - 10-1-2022 at 01:49

Hello all,

I know a lady from the internet she is from Syria, but she lives in Turkey now, recently Doctors told her that she should have an operation on one of her eyes and she is not familiar with chemistry so, she doesn't know what chemical substance might have created these problems for her.

She said she is suffering from serious headaches (recently = late 2021) and Turkish doctors told her she should have an operation on her eye, the eye looks normal so, whatever the problem is it is inside of the eye.

But at the time of the attack, she lived near Damascus, and she only showed some allergic reaction back then and had problems with eyes for six months but after that, she thought she had got recoverd. (time of attack Augest, 2013) Location: south of Damascus close to Palastine camp and not in Gouta (if you are going to search the timeline of chemical attacks in Syria I have to tell u I already did a brief search and did not find any useful info, it seems the attach she was injured in it was not a major one and is not recorded!) needless to say that the attack had some casualties and in some cases it was fatal.

The weird thing is that she claims the chemical substance used as a weapon had a smell like petrol! (I don't know any chemical weapon which would smell like petrol she says she cannot describe the smell exactly; she also added "or maybe smell of sulfur"; I told her sulphur has a totally different smell! but these descriptions are the best she has to offer) the weapon used had white smoke; she also claims a starch-like powder was found on the floors. However, as u know the powder she is describing could just be the dust deposited on the floors after some time.

I appreciate any help

sarinox - 10-1-2022 at 08:09

Guys I might be able to ask her more questions about that if you think it may help identify the type of chemical substance used!

clearly_not_atara - 10-1-2022 at 08:21

"near Damascus"

"August 2013"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghouta_chemical_attack
Quote:
The Ghouta chemical attack occurred in Ghouta, Syria, during the Syrian civil war, in the early hours of 21 August 2013. Two opposition-controlled areas in the suburbs around Damascus were struck by rockets containing the chemical agent sarin.
That narrows it down a bit, don't you think?

sarinox - 10-1-2022 at 08:59

Well thank you very much for your reply, I really appreciate it.

As I mentioned I did a brief research and things pointed to Sarin. ( I heard about GWI or Gulf War Illness)

However, her descriptions that she had seen white powder forced me to have my doubts and I want to know what happened to her eyes that required surgery?

Could it be a type of cancer?

clearly_not_atara - 10-1-2022 at 10:15

Cancer is, in my opinion very unlikely, but plausible -- there is always a small chance of "could it be cancer?", but her exposure to sarin doesn't really change this at all! Sarin exposure victims after the 1994 terrorist attacks in Japan -- generally considered the best dataset for sarin exposures -- had an 18.5% chance of persistent eye irritation but the study makes no mention of any cancers:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S138266890...

Generally, single exposures to a small amount of a carcinogen do not contribute much to overall long-term cancer risk. The problematic carcinogens are the ones with few to no other toxic effects so you don't notice you're being exposed every day for years. Sarin is not like that.

So, given that acetylcholine plays a crucial role in controlling eye movement, sarin short-circuits the acetylcholine signalling system, and sarin exposures cause persistent eye irritation pretty often, I'm leaning towards it being highly likely that your friend's eye problems are related to her recent sarin exposure. This is not a declaration I would make lightly: people who are certain they have been harmed by this or that frightening event or substance usually end up doing more harm to themselves in the long run than the initial exposure. So I'm glad to hear your friend is seeing a real doctor about the problem instead of doing something to herself that could cause serious injury.

The likely effect of sarin, based on its pharmacology, would be some kind of injury to the nerves or muscles that control the eye, which you would probably not be able to see. This seems basically consistent with your story. Injuries to the connective tissue (iris/sclera) on the front of the eye are less likely because these tissues do not contain very much acetylcholine.

The white powder is likely a combustion byproduct of the explosive used to spread sarin gas over a large area. Or possibly, the powder could be used as a carrier for the toxin, to disperse it more efficiently.

Please be aware that I am not a medical professional.

SWIM - 10-1-2022 at 10:24

Quote: Originally posted by sarinox  
I want to know what happened to her eyes that required surgery?

Could it be a type of cancer?


Why are you asking us instead of asking her?
She probably has closer contact with her doctors than anybody on this site does.

sarinox - 10-1-2022 at 13:51

Hello SWIM and thank you for your reply,

The Problem is She doesn't know why doctors asked her to have eye surgery! or maybe she is reluctant to tell me!

And the reason That I have questions about it is for my own curiosity I never knew nerve agents could have long term effects.

I quote "Mildly exposed people usually recover completely. Severely exposed people are less likely to survive."

source: https://emergency.cdc.gov/agent/sarin/basics/facts.asp

sarinox - 10-1-2022 at 13:53

Quote: Originally posted by clearly_not_atara  


https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S138266890...

The likely effect of sarin, based on its pharmacology, would be some kind of injury to the nerves or muscles that control the eye, which you would probably not be able to see. This seems basically consistent with your story. Injuries to the connective tissue (iris/sclera) on the front of the eye are less likely because these tissues do not contain very much acetylcholine.

The white powder is likely a combustion byproduct of the explosive used to spread sarin gas over a large area. Or possibly, the powder could be used as a carrier for the toxin, to disperse it more efficiently.


Thank you clearly_not_atara for your reply, it is logical and informative! :-)