Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Soluble Caffeine

Romix - 27-10-2021 at 19:47

Is it possible to make pure Caffeine crystal water soluble? If so, how?


caffeine.jpg - 69kB

Boffis - 28-10-2021 at 01:35

I seem to recall that caffeine has a normal and steep solubility gradient so I would have thought that you can simply recrystallise it from hot water and cool. Have you checked out google? If you want good crystals don't make the solution too concentrated and let it cool slowly.

nawaf - 28-10-2021 at 01:45

I don't see how it would be possible since it doesn't have any hydrogen bonds as starches or sugars do.

Romix - 28-10-2021 at 01:46

Ok, what about Caffeine based fizzy medications with high sodium content?

nawaf - 28-10-2021 at 02:30

Aren't the concentrations of caffeine in medication and consumables very low? They don't need to have high solubilities.

Romix - 28-10-2021 at 02:44

There's ampules for injection, with the same chemical that's in Alka Seltzer at Morrisons, with very high sodium content, more then 5 times higher then the caffeine in it.

Romix - 28-10-2021 at 03:01

Tried reacting sample with vinegar, it dissolved better then in water. But on evaporation to salt on my LED lamp at about 80 - 90 C, I think it decomposed...

Romix - 28-10-2021 at 03:03

By the look of it this sodium complex of caffeine, can be in a solution as well as powder or no ?

walruslover69 - 28-10-2021 at 05:04

caffeine citrate is a very water solution caffeine compound commercially available as powder and solution

Romix - 29-10-2021 at 17:34

wairuslover69 how to make it ?

SWIM - 29-10-2021 at 21:09

There is a thread on making caffeine citrate here on sciencemadness that should be helpful.

The title, Caffeine citrate synthesis? , will get you there through the search engine.
the question mark is needed to make it come up.



Romix - 29-10-2021 at 21:16

Thanks!

Romix - 29-10-2021 at 21:25

Off to Morrisons in half an hour to get some food grade citric acid, hope they sell it. Had some citric from ebay, it's rubbish more then half of it won't dissolve in water, it's cut with something.

Romix - 29-10-2021 at 21:27

APC Pure is reputable seller, but I don't want to wait for it to get delivered. Want it right now.
Also they grassed me up about buying acids from them, and police raided my house thinking I'm a terrorist.

Romix - 29-10-2021 at 21:28

And now watching all my social medias, post on forums and listening to all my phones calls.

Romix - 29-10-2021 at 21:36

But they've said every thing I do is completely legal in UK, by that I mean Gold recovery.
Just need to get a fire extinguisher, which I didn't had.

Romix - 23-12-2021 at 23:27

Yes, Caffeine Citrate is very soluble.

Romix - 25-12-2021 at 16:49

Water which I've froze after many crystallizations to pure caffeine crystal.
A lot of small crystals came out of it, they are small and can't be squeezed in to rocks but can be filtered.
Scrapped all the crystals out of the filter, and reacted it with 100ml strong citric acid solution.
Evaporated it down to 30ml, every thing seems to be good at that point.
But at the down to 10 ml having a problem, solution turned sticky like molten honey.
What I'm doing wrong ??? Or it supposed to be like that?

Romix - 25-12-2021 at 16:59

Also, another question, if I dissolve whole pack of coffee in a liter of boiling water. Will crystals crystalize out on cooling like they do from pills ?

Ubya - 25-12-2021 at 23:21

Quote: Originally posted by Romix  
Water which I've froze after many crystallizations to pure caffeine crystal.
A lot of small crystals came out of it, they are small and can't be squeezed in to rocks but can be filtered.
Scrapped all the crystals out of the filter, and reacted it with 100ml strong citric acid solution.
Evaporated it down to 30ml, every thing seems to be good at that point.
But at the down to 10 ml having a problem, solution turned sticky like molten honey.
What I'm doing wrong ??? Or it supposed to be like that?


Are you boiling the solution to remove excess water?
Caffeine citrate has a melting point of about 160°C so maybe you are just melting it.

About the crystallization of caffeine from instant coffee, maybe?
But surely it won't be good or pure crystals, coffee has a lot of compounds, a quick extraction with an apolar solvent i think is the easiest thing you could do with the best outcome

Romix - 26-12-2021 at 03:44

Quote: Originally posted by Ubya  
Quote: Originally posted by Romix  
Water which I've froze after many crystallizations to pure caffeine crystal.
A lot of small crystals came out of it, they are small and can't be squeezed in to rocks but can be filtered.
Scrapped all the crystals out of the filter, and reacted it with 100ml strong citric acid solution.
Evaporated it down to 30ml, every thing seems to be good at that point.
But at the down to 10 ml having a problem, solution turned sticky like molten honey.
What I'm doing wrong ??? Or it supposed to be like that?


Are you boiling the solution to remove excess water?
Caffeine citrate has a melting point of about 160°C so maybe you are just melting it.

About the crystallization of caffeine from instant coffee, maybe?
But surely it won't be good or pure crystals, coffee has a lot of compounds, a quick extraction with an apolar solvent i think is the easiest thing you could do with the best outcome

No, I'm not boiling it. Left it to evaporate slowly on my LED lamp at about 80 - 90 C.

Romix - 26-12-2021 at 23:50

I had a crystalizing dish with a few liters of citric acid crystalizing on a lamp too...
And citric acid with out caffeine in it... went like molten honey too... In few weeks evaporating at about 90C...

Romix - 26-12-2021 at 23:51

Dodgy citric acid or what??

Romix - 27-12-2021 at 00:16

Just back from Wilkinson's, they sell descaler 150Gs for 1.8£, says citric anhydrous on a pack.
I'll try that see if it makes any difference to citric acid bought from ebay...

Romix - 27-12-2021 at 03:41

Yes, it's much better I can see it straight away, not oily as the one I've previously used. Very good, very happy!

Romix - 29-12-2021 at 06:07

No, in a day on a lamp it turned oily too!!!

Ubya - 29-12-2021 at 19:31

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=64002

It also turned "sticky" to RogueRose, it probably just is in its glass form, try scrathing the glass under your product or maybe save a few crystals before it gets sticky, so you can use them as seeds when in the end gets glassy and not crystalline

Romix - 13-7-2022 at 19:36

Hahaha now at Wilkinson's they stopped writing what chemicals descaler contain. Remember good old days when one was anhydrous pure citric acid and other liquid pure lactic acid. But still go there sometimes, because their bags are the cheapest in UK and biggest too. 10 pence per bag... Morrisons charging 60p for example. Every visit there getting 10 bags and
throwing out all the electronic waste in them with all the goodies removed by hand. Oh well, now will be getting 5kg buckets of Ebay if needed.

Romix - 13-7-2022 at 19:40

Prices on KOH tripled too on Ebay. Any one knows why?
But still it's cheaper to buy in 25kg bag then buy from APCpure by KG. Don't know if I'll need that much though.
Tin dropped in price, at one point this year people were buying ton for 43.000£, went down to 26.000£.
Ordered 5 kg yesterday on tick, paying paypal in 3 payments. 30£ a killo, but you gotta understand the seller too, postage price, plus ebay and paypal fees which are almost 20%.

[Edited on 14-7-2022 by Romix]

Romix - 13-7-2022 at 19:51

Caffeine prices increased too, but not by much, hardly noticeable. And it's worth it's price.
Drying out caffeine rocks with my laptop fan, laptop is old and overheating needs to be cleaned every half a year... Not like newer models.




[Edited on 14-7-2022 by Romix]

Romix - 26-11-2023 at 14:09

I like this picture!


[Edited on 26-11-2023 by Romix]

280146790_1393631577803760_849203294255086158_n.jpg - 227kB