Sciencemadness Discussion Board

MEK & substitute at big box stores & online - be careful what you order

RogueRose - 14-2-2021 at 11:05

I came across some interesting MEK substitutes which I find kind of infuriating when I looked at the SDS and one of them was 100% methanol for $30/gallon! I was checking out Lowes and it seems they have a MEK substitute which is Ethyl Acetate, which is kind of add b/c another company had done the same thing years ago and they ended up pulling that from the market and going back to normal MEK for some reason.

I was really shocked that one of the products I looked at listed the CAS# for MEK but it was 100% methanol listed in the SDS and I didn't see the term "substitute" on the image of the bottle/can. I suspect there might be other manufacturer's that are using methanol b/c I saw a few MEK bottles that were plastic gallon jugs and I'd think the only safe thing to keep in that would be methanol. SO if anyone buys MEK, be careful you are verifying what is inside.

Here are some things I've found:
Jasco brand MEK - available at Lowes - is 100% Ethyl Acetate
Klean Strip MEK Substitute - 100% Ethyl Acetate
Klean Strip Methyl Ethyl Ketone - 100% Methyl ethyl ketone (2-Butanone)
Sunnyside MEK - 75-100% Methyl ethyl ketone (2-Butanone)
Crown MEK - available at some Lowes - 100% Methanol






https://crownpaintok.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/TS109_SDS_NA_1.0.pdf

Fyndium - 14-2-2021 at 13:11

They don't even sell stuff in pure form in Europe, except for some stuff like acetone and xylene, all other are some vague blends or generalized names like paint thinner which can be basically anything and everything, and with very good luck you might end up with something useful.

Most irritating thing is indeed that it seems like a trend that anything that could be even remotely useful is being replaced with something that cannot be used for anything. Sometimes it feels like the companies hire chemists to find out the most unusable compounds to use in their products. For example, paint thinner is no toluene, but acetone, ethyl and butyl acetate, ethanol (not even methanol, because it's toxic) and hydrocarbons. Benzyl alcohol as paint stripper, is replaced with butyl acetate. Butyl acetate seems like some sort of go-to stuff that is used in everything. One of the most absurd thing was "100% IPA" product de-icer, that stated in the same sticker that it contains ipa and ethanol.

I'd actually ask for a refund if I'd buy a stuff that is not what it's supposed to be.

I haven't seen MEK sold in anywhere, except for as a spray form in here. In some other countries it's sold by the gallon.

[Edited on 14-2-2021 by Fyndium]

Metallophile - 14-2-2021 at 13:15

Methanol is only mentioned in the one place. Everything else in that SDS refers to MEK. I wonder if it's just an error on the SDS? Maybe buy some and test it somehow?

RogueRose - 14-2-2021 at 15:08

Quote: Originally posted by Fyndium  
They don't even sell stuff in pure form in Europe, except for some stuff like acetone and xylene, all other are some vague blends or generalized names like paint thinner which can be basically anything and everything, and with very good luck you might end up with something useful.

Most irritating thing is indeed that it seems like a trend that anything that could be even remotely useful is being replaced with something that cannot be used for anything. Sometimes it feels like the companies hire chemists to find out the most unusable compounds to use in their products. For example, paint thinner is no toluene, but acetone, ethyl and butyl acetate, ethanol (not even methanol, because it's toxic) and hydrocarbons. Benzyl alcohol as paint stripper, is replaced with butyl acetate. Butyl acetate seems like some sort of go-to stuff that is used in everything. One of the most absurd thing was "100% IPA" product de-icer, that stated in the same sticker that it contains ipa and ethanol.

I'd actually ask for a refund if I'd buy a stuff that is not what it's supposed to be.

I haven't seen MEK sold in anywhere, except for as a spray form in here. In some other countries it's sold by the gallon.

[Edited on 14-2-2021 by Fyndium]


So is this on the "main land" or in the UK? That would be terrible and frustrating. What is so frustrating is that sometimes people need what is inside (original) and the other stuff/replacements won't work as well or at all.

Can you buy stuff from a professional supplier? In the US you can still get anything you need and often you can buy it at a local supplier for professionals/businesses (which also sell to retail/home buyers but they often focus on supplying businesses).

I just couldn't believe when they listed MED even with the CAS on the SDS but then where it listed ingredients it was methanol. I wonder if it was a mistake by the company. I think the companies should not be allowed to call it the same thing b/c especially like the case I said and sometimes they do put "substitute" or "replacement" on the can/bottle but it might be easy to miss if you aren't really looking for it. At least this is fairly manageable but I can't imagine having to deal with what you have to deal with..

RogueRose - 14-2-2021 at 15:11

Quote: Originally posted by Metallophile  
Methanol is only mentioned in the one place. Everything else in that SDS refers to MEK. I wonder if it's just an error on the SDS? Maybe buy some and test it somehow?


I think I saw the same SDS on a number of other sites and I can't say if they were the same revision or not and I think I saw another manufacturer listing methanol as well but that was a few days ago and what got me looking into this, so there may be 2 brands that are using methanol.

arkoma - 14-2-2021 at 18:04

Fortunately, I can stilll get MEK, xylene, and Toluene in Texarkana but gave to go to several different places.

All Klean-Strip.

Mateo_swe - 15-2-2021 at 09:50

Here in Europe i can order MEK min. 99.5% from a chemical supplier but they want 18 Euros for a liter and 31 Euros/liter for the "for analysis" quality.
In ordinary hardware stores they dont sell much things at all nowadays, some HCL and acetone i think they still sell but i couldn't even get some ethyl acetate when i tried.
I havent seen any products with false labels but thats probably because they dont sell anything at all in pure form now.
Thankfully some countries in Europe sell most things that i can order but they probably stop this soon also.

Fyndium - 15-2-2021 at 12:52

Ethyl acetate is quite available, but it is never sold as pure form, but you'll have to look through some MSDS. I've faced it too many times in all sorts of paint strippers and stuff in recent days looking for MEK.

I've found only a couple of products that contain a dilute solution of hydrochloric acid, but it is order of magnitude cheaper to make with bisulfate. Only exception is stores that sell pool stuff, they usually sell 35% HCl canisters for cheap. Toluene seems to be still widely available, although it's been banned by EU since like 2004 or something, but it's always adulterated with some crap. Nothing that a simple water and brine wash and distillation won't solve. I just purchased a 10L can of paint thinner for 20€, washed it to remove any water solubles and distilled it to obtain a bit over 5 liters of highly pure fractionated toluene. I could have obtained 2 liters more if I weren't so tight on cuts, but as it was so cheap I went only for the hearts. DCM? Long gone. Chloroform? Get acetone and calcium hypochlorite and make it yourself, likely cost around 10€/kg if the depicted synthesis yields what it appears I linked earlier.

Hardware stores aren't nowadays so much hardware stores, but general stores that carry hardware selection and a small selection of stock of wood, metal and stuff like that for construction. They really sell very little any chemicals, and even fewer in pure form.

I don't believe that chemical stores stop selling stuff, unless it's specifically banned. There are actually dozens of chemical suppliers that sell all kind of stuff, but many of them need you to inquire about it. Some list all in a webstore for you to basket and order as you wish, like the store you're likely referring with your MEK.

The useful stuff that is readily purchased is somewhat narrow. Most stuff require purification or extraction steps, like nitrates are basically never sold as pure, but for example any nitrate can be readily extracted in pure form by converting it into KNO3.

Everything that's not banned per se, has usually some macabre use for consumers, like pottery stores and even such thing as bee-keeping, but the feedstock for making stuff yourself widens the selection immensely. Most of the times it is not economical to buy stuff like HCl but make it yourself. Main reason is that customers want easy stuff that is safe to use and good for the environment (yep, some organic crap vs sodium hydroxide for drain opener? C'mon...), and just don't want to do things themselves. I've suggested people that certain things will solve(pun) their problems much better, but they insisted that some stupid, totally un-chemical method would work. Most common thing I face is drain opening with vinegar and baking soda. Yep, mix'em and you get apparent vigorous reaction, but you could literally bathe in it without harm. So much it does to your dirty drains, too.

But if you go to commercial level, you can order pretty much anything that doesn't require license, and even then it's half the time just a formality. I've noticed that if there are lots of home ran businesses, the suppliers are more ready to ship it to residential address, than where it is common to have separate location for business.

Another sad factor to consider is sometimes it's unwise to just order certain things, as someone, somewhere sees patterns that someone has determined red-flags, and you might get a totally different kind of home delivery right next to your bed instead of doorstep. There are instances when I've just made the reagents myself from scratch instead of buying them even when they were seemingly easy and even cheap to order, as I knew that it could look bad in the books.