Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Ordering watched chemicals from Europe

monolithic - 10-11-2020 at 14:47

I want to buy a small amount of sodium metal (100 g) and it appears that Onyxmet can do it very cheaply, like $35 shipped to my address in the USA. I've ordered chemicals from overseas before but never a DEA watchlist chemical. Has anyone done this before -- should I expect any trouble from US Customs or law enforcement? I'm not up to anything illegal, just trying to gauge if the cost savings ($35 from Onyxmet vs $80-90 from domestic suppliers) are worth the potential headaches.

karlos³ - 10-11-2020 at 15:08

Dude, people imported stuff like PMK glycidate by dozens of kilos from outside of the states.
And Tom packs his stuff very well.
No worries.

Cou - 10-11-2020 at 20:11

i'm in the same boat. I just ordered 250 grams of red P from chemcraft.su.
I think the worst that can happen is that the order gets stuck at customs, but it's more likely to go through than not. People order actual drugs in bulk through customs. Worst you will get is a love letter.

If it doesn't work out. I want someone here to spoonfeed me a step-by-step guide on how to make red P at home, for idiots. give me a shopping list and all. because i can't figure it out.

karlos³ - 10-11-2020 at 20:18

You know how to make white P? React that with a catalytic amount of I2.

Cou - 10-11-2020 at 20:38

No, i don't know how to make white P either.

j_sum1 - 10-11-2020 at 20:46

Quote: Originally posted by monolithic  
I want to buy a small amount of sodium metal (100 g) and it appears that Onyxmet can do it very cheaply, like $35 shipped to my address in the USA. I've ordered chemicals from overseas before but never a DEA watchlist chemical. Has anyone done this before -- should I expect any trouble from US Customs or law enforcement? I'm not up to anything illegal, just trying to gauge if the cost savings ($35 from Onyxmet vs $80-90 from domestic suppliers) are worth the potential headaches.

My dealings with onyxmet have always been very positive, including shipping to Australia.
I bought one of those 100g cannisters of Na a few years back. It was a very good way of packaging it and it raised no issues at the border.
FTR, I also bought some red P and lithium from onyxmet more recently. Again no issues. They were labelled more cryptically so as to not raise red flags. Basically that meant my order was split with the sensitive items in a separate package. Process was straightforward.

Chances are that you wil be fine. Tom has lots of experience serving customers over the globe and shipping into all kinds of destinations. i have not heard of any issues at all dealing with him.

Similar things can be said about chemcraft. I have had nothing but excellent service from them.

woelen - 11-11-2020 at 00:03

I can add my words to what j_sum1 and karlos³ say about Onyxmet and Chemcraft. Both companies have excellent service and they package their stuff really well. I am happy that there are such companies, who sell interesting materials to individuals.

nzlostpass - 11-11-2020 at 00:57

Quote: Originally posted by Cou  
i'm in the same boat. I just ordered 250 grams of red P from chemcraft.su.
I think the worst that can happen is that the order gets stuck at customs, but it's more likely to go through than not. People order actual drugs in bulk through customs. Worst you will get is a love letter.

If it doesn't work out. I want someone here to spoonfeed me a step-by-step guide on how to make red P at home, for idiots. give me a shopping list and all. because i can't figure it out.


I have an order of 10 gms (all they had!) of NaBH4 overdue from Chemcraft myself so maybe russian post is super held up? The tracking said it took a month to even get to the point of leaving russia but then nothing now for weeks.......same with something else off ebay from Germany and also a damn 250 dollar heating mantle from aliexpress.......just have to hope its the corona and not customs I guess.

Fyndium - 11-11-2020 at 03:43

My orders from China have been very late recently, so it appears to be the corona once again.

zed - 13-11-2020 at 04:58

I don't think the problem is Corona Virus. The problem is mostly politics, here in the U.S..

Our Customs services, and our Post Office are malingering.

As for ordering "Listed" verbotten items, from foreign suppliers, and having them delivered inside the U.S.. It isn't a good idea.

Phosphorus may be less of a hot-button issue, than it used to be.... But, importing it without a permit, is considered a crime here. I wouldn't.

Find a domestic seller, make it, or scrape it off of matchbook strikers.

MidLifeChemist - 13-11-2020 at 08:19

Quote: Originally posted by nzlostpass  


I have an order of 10 gms (all they had!) of NaBH4 overdue from Chemcraft myself so maybe russian post is super held up? The tracking said it took a month to even get to the point of leaving russia but then nothing now for weeks.......


What country are you in?

chemship1978 - 13-11-2020 at 08:48

Quote: Originally posted by MidLifeChemist  
Quote: Originally posted by nzlostpass  


I have an order of 10 gms (all they had!) of NaBH4 overdue from Chemcraft myself so maybe russian post is super held up? The tracking said it took a month to even get to the point of leaving russia but then nothing now for weeks.......


What country are you in?

His nickname is quite revealing in that matter!

Fery - 13-11-2020 at 09:09

Chemcraft send me a package via Russian postal service the same day I ordered from him which was 27th October and it was delivered to me 10th November.

monolithic - 13-11-2020 at 09:24

I talked to Tom and he said he's sent sodium to the USA multiple times without issue. If anyone cares, I'll let you know if it arrives. :) Very good price, $32 shipped for 100 g.

nzlostpass - 13-11-2020 at 17:17

Quote: Originally posted by MidLifeChemist  
Quote: Originally posted by nzlostpass  


I have an order of 10 gms (all they had!) of NaBH4 overdue from Chemcraft myself so maybe russian post is super held up? The tracking said it took a month to even get to the point of leaving russia but then nothing now for weeks.......


What country are you in?


NZ=NEW ZEALAND :)

nzlostpass - 13-11-2020 at 17:19

Quote: Originally posted by MidLifeChemist  
Quote: Originally posted by nzlostpass  


I have an order of 10 gms (all they had!) of NaBH4 overdue from Chemcraft myself so maybe russian post is super held up? The tracking said it took a month to even get to the point of leaving russia but then nothing now for weeks.......


What country are you in?


NZ=NEW ZEALAND :)

MidLifeChemist - 13-11-2020 at 17:38

Quote: Originally posted by nzlostpass  
Quote: Originally posted by MidLifeChemist  


What country are you in?


NZ=NEW ZEALAND :)


I thought so, but I didn't want to assume. That's why postal service is slow to you, there are very few international flights now between your part of the world and the rest of the world.

Beautiful country btw. I've visited there twice. Are you in Auckland? Or perhaps you are in the "lost pass" on the South Island :)



[Edited on 11/14/2020 by MidLifeChemist]

nzlostpass - 13-11-2020 at 19:33

Quote: Originally posted by MidLifeChemist  
Quote: Originally posted by nzlostpass  
Quote: Originally posted by MidLifeChemist  


What country are you in?


NZ=NEW ZEALAND :)


I thought so, but I didn't want to assume. That's why postal service is slow to you, there are very few international flights now between your part of the world and the rest of the world.

Beautiful country btw. I've visited there twice. Are you in Auckland? Or perhaps you are in the "lost pass" on the South Island :)



[Edited on 11/14/2020 by MidLifeChemist]


Thank you for complimenting my country :)
Im in the south of the south island......my name was NZniceguy but I got locked out of that account hence the "lost pass".

Im overdue on 3 items from 3 diff countries and customs could have nabbed them......last time that happened I lost a complete glassware set worth over $200 and never heard a thing....the tracking just stops.

So i dont know if its just late due to corona etc or our damn customs.

zed - 22-11-2020 at 05:55

Ummm. I have the impression that NZ is pretty well locked down.

Unlike most of the rest of the world, you have Corona Virus, under control.

Efforts to keep it under control, may be slowing down the mails, and other things.

Be happy.



[Edited on 22-11-2020 by zed]

nzlostpass - 22-11-2020 at 17:47

ThePackageFromGermanyShowedUpLastWeekAndTheTrackingOnTheRussianParcelFinallySaysItHasArrivedInNewZealand.SorryMySpaceBarIsNotWorking.

monolithic - 28-11-2020 at 11:56

My 100 g order of sodium metal was delivered with absolutely no issues. :) From order to delivery it was about 16 days (Poczta Polska shipping to US + USPS delivery.) Very happy overall, I highly recommend Onyxmet.

HydrogenSulphate - 28-11-2020 at 15:34

Quote: Originally posted by nzlostpass  
ThePackageFromGermanyShowedUpLastWeekAndTheTrackingOnTheRussianParcelFinallySaysItHasArrivedInNewZealand.SorryMySpaceBarIsNotWorking.


You've probably got biscuit crumbs lodged under it :P

HydrogenSulphate - 28-11-2020 at 15:36

Quote: Originally posted by monolithic  
My 100 g order of sodium metal was delivered with absolutely no issues. :) From order to delivery it was about 16 days (Poczta Polska shipping to US + USPS delivery.) Very happy overall, I highly recommend Onyxmet.


Interesting. So, do you think customs opened it and decided to allow you to have it, or they did not open up the package?

monolithic - 28-11-2020 at 20:05

Quote: Originally posted by HydrogenSulphate  
Quote: Originally posted by monolithic  
My 100 g order of sodium metal was delivered with absolutely no issues. :) From order to delivery it was about 16 days (Poczta Polska shipping to US + USPS delivery.) Very happy overall, I highly recommend Onyxmet.


Interesting. So, do you think customs opened it and decided to allow you to have it, or they did not open up the package?


I don't believe they opened it, judging by the tape on the box. The box was marked "inert metal rod" and the vacuum sealed pack inside the box was clearly marked sodium metal, so it would have been apparent what the contents were.

Fyndium - 29-11-2020 at 03:55

Where is sodium a regulated substance?

monolithic - 29-11-2020 at 04:51

Quote: Originally posted by Fyndium  
Where is sodium a regulated substance?

It's DEA special surveillance if you read the chemical handlers handbook.

zed - 2-12-2020 at 22:51

Lots of things are "Special surveillance". Not the same thing as being "Listed", or worse List 1.

Personally, I'd try to buy it from a U.S. seller, if you are in the U.S..

At he moment, It's hard to know, what the Feds currently have a "bee in their bonnets" about.

And, "Importing" attracts attention.

Now-A-Days, it is easy enough to make your own Sodium.

Fyndium - 3-12-2020 at 03:02

If you are a supplier and someone buys listed stuff, when do you report it and to whom? Or do chemical dealers get a Secret Black Letter from the gov that contains requests?

teodor - 3-12-2020 at 04:39

Quote: Originally posted by zed  

Now-A-Days, it is easy enough to make your own Sodium.


From the sciencemadness wiki:
"There are many methods known for producing sodium, many of which seem easy theoretically, but pose their own practical challenges. Producing sodium at home on a large scale is generally not feasible due to the conditions under which the reactions must take place, but is a great project and achievement for the experienced amateur chemist."

Do you mean reduction with magnesium (thermite) as the easy way or some other approach?

[Edited on 3-12-2020 by teodor]

Tsjerk - 3-12-2020 at 06:24

I would go with the mineral oil / magnesium / NaOH / menthol method. I did it once and I found the procedure very easy. You could do a small thermite reaction to get a small amount of sodium to dry the reaction the first time, or use an old Erlenmeyer as it will get etched pretty badly without drying it with sodium.

teodor - 3-12-2020 at 06:42

I didn't know this method work well for sodium, I thought it for potassium. Also I remember it always was some exotic solvent ... Thanks Tsjerk for the info but I already ordered Na. Actually more than I need, so will be able to retail if somebody will be interested (or exchange, I want Gallium). But I see, it is easy now ;) ....



[Edited on 3-12-2020 by teodor]

monolithic - 3-12-2020 at 16:26

Quote: Originally posted by zed  
Now-A-Days, it is easy enough to make your own Sodium.


The NurdRage method is much more difficult than it looks, speaking from personal experience. Out of about 10 attempts it worked once with 90% yield, once with 50% yield, and about eight times with 0-20% yields. I tried swapping reagents, running the reaction differently, even contacting NurdRage for troubleshooting. Still not sure why it worked really well once and so poorly the other times, but NurdRage did tell me it is a very difficult reaction even for experienced chemist friends he collaborated with.

[Edited on 12-4-2020 by monolithic]

zed - 3-12-2020 at 17:15

Well, Borneol or Isoborneol, are reputed to work better than Menthol.

Though you might have to make this stuff yourself. Camphor is readily available, Borneol and Isoborneol...not so much.

Also, the Thermite yield could be improved upon. Like by using an inert atmosphere, over the reaction, and utilizing a more sophisticated reaction vessel. Much of the Sodium produced, is promptly destroyed.

[Edited on 4-12-2020 by zed]

[Edited on 4-12-2020 by zed]

Fyndium - 3-12-2020 at 17:30

I would likely use a longer tube as a reactor, fill it with argon and fire it up. Placing a gravity assisted plug to the end, from a bolt and larger washer for example like I did with my cyanide pot, the overpessure can escape but it limits the access of air into the system. Cleansing the tube is another matter though, but probably pouring in mineral oil and heating the tube would be a start.

I have still the test of sodium carbonate and carbon to be done. I already got the apparatus ready but eventually did not have time and access to my suitable place to test it out so it will move into future. The concept is:

Na2CO3 + 2 C → 2 Na + 3 CO

Where I have stainless steel reactor with retort tube led into a flask with mineral oil and exhaust tube for CO gas. Heating the reactor to 1100C which should be doable with high pressure propane torch (20kW each) in a ceramic wool raku type furnace, the sodium should distill and flow through the retort into the flask and accumulate below oil. The residual heat should keep the retort hot enough to allow sodium be molten all the way to the flask and oil. If this method works, it would easily allow for several hundred grams of Na be produced from each batch.