Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Decarboxylation of L-tryptophan in DMSO

Benignium - 5-11-2020 at 08:48

This is a write up of my third attempt at decarboxylating tryptophan to yield tryptamine. Please note that so far I haven't been able to confirm whether or not the product of this preparation is actually tryptamine.

(The first attempt was made by heating a copper chelate prepared by combining aqueous solutions of copper(II) acetate and L-tryptophan. Work up was an absolute dumpster fire and the approach was quickly abandoned. For the second attempt I prepared acetophenone to act as a catalyst and got promising results. This second attempt was then reproduced and documented more thoroughly.)

20 grams of commercial L-tryptophan, 175 grams of DMSO and 5 grams of acetophenone were placed in a 1000 mL Erlenmeyer. The vessel was purged with argon and gradual heating was commenced with strong stirring. Vigorous effervescence was observed starting at 110 deg. C that died down in minutes as all of the tryptophan eventually dissolved and the mixture became completely clear. The mixture was further heated at a steady pace to 175 deg. C over 40 minutes with no apparent reaction taking place. The mixture had a mild unpleasant odor reminiscent of boiled brussels sprout.



The solution was cooled to room temperature and treated with 60 grams of acetic acid and roughly 300 mL in total of water. The aqueous phase thoroughly washed with 7x25 mL portions of DCM and treated with 54 grams of sodium bicarbonate. The aqueous phase was twice more washed with 25 mL portions of DCM and finally basified with 40 grams of NaOH. The mixture was extracted with 3x50 mL DCM and combined extracts were stripped of solvent. The residue was washed twice with 50 grams of boiling acetonitrile. The product is separated by filtration as 10.0 grams (63.7%) of cream colored crystalline powder and using a steel spatula shaped into the form of poor housing.




However, as mentioned in the beginning of this post I haven't confirmed that what I have is indeed tryptamine. My melting point tests utilizing a test tube and a hotplate have been a failure, but it seems that in a beaker the product seems to melt starting at about 110 deg. C and shortly starts to decompose and sublime depositing as a tan dusting with some tiny crystals of same color. If anyone can advise me on how to better and more reliably find melting point ranges on the cheap or ways to identify tryptamine I would be very grateful.



Antigua - 5-11-2020 at 08:59

Wow, these are some really good results. You can buy capillary tubes for no more than 10USD per 200 on AliExpress, they work great as a way of melting point determination. Just seal them on one side, load some product in, seal on the end side and chuck into a thin layer of mineral oil that is being stirred and heated alongside an electrical thermocouple. Does your product smell of acetophenone? Did you cool down the solution before basyfing? Was there any oil formed? You could try the purification via oxalate method mentioned in one of the millions posted threads about tryptamine. That, or the fumarate, both are reported to work well.
Great work.

Benignium - 5-11-2020 at 09:41

Thank you Antigua! I've been meaning to get capillary tubes for a long time now but I thought I might get by using a small test tube. No such luck, it seems.

The product does not smell at all like acetophenone (the reaction mixture does, though). There is a subtle but distinct smell somewhat reminiscent of N,N-dimethyltryptamine, which I've had the good fortune to smell before. The mixture was only ever cooled down to room temperature before adding something to it. Never really any oil to speak of, save for the product "oiling out" as a thick red gel once DCM was removed prior to washing with MeCN.

I've been reading through the other threads and will be trying the oxalate method next! :)



mackolol - 5-11-2020 at 11:32

If you did it in plain acetophenone without any solvent, the yield would be higher.
But anyways, great reaction. ;)

[Edited on 5-11-2020 by mackolol]

Benignium - 5-11-2020 at 14:40

Thank you mackolol!

Right now I do not view using acetophenone as the solvent as worthwhile; acetophenone is something I have to make whereas DMSO I can still easily order online (knock on wood!). I am also going to need acetophenone for other experiments such as the Willgerodt-Kindler. Anything over 50% would be plenty for me, all things considered.

I dried some oxalic acid dihydrate in the oven at 100 deg. C for a couple of hours and dissolved 5 grams of my product as well as 5 grams of the dried acid (technical grade, turned grey from blackened impurity) in ~37 grams of methanol. White crystals started forming immediately after filtering the hot solution. I will give the test tube melting point thing one more shot once I've got the base again.






mr_bovinejony - 6-11-2020 at 10:09

How many times did you extract the post reaction mixture with acetic acid? You had mentioned using 60 grams of acetic acid and 300 mls of water, but I dont think the water would be any good if it's not acidic

ArbuzToWoda - 7-11-2020 at 08:26

Interesting. I tried to follow your procedure as closely as possible, but had to tweak a couple of things.
1. My largest sep funnel is 250ml so I washed all of the solution in 2 batches using total of over 250ml DCM (around 5x25ml each time). Right now I'm after the addition of bicarbonate, extraction with DCM (actually no brown or gooey stuff came out after adding all of the bicarbonate, so I'm not sure if the washing is neccessary) and basification. After adding 40g of NaOH in 100ml of water this is what I'm left with (attachement 1). The rest of attachements are:
The clear, yellow solution is what I obtained after all of the DCM washings, before the addition of bicarb
The dark solution is the reaction mixture after adding it to 60g of GAA in 300g water.

What do you guys suggest I do with this red/opaque mixture? I'm also a bit confused, many many sources claim that tryptamine is very weakly soluble in DCM, so how were you able to extract it using it? What's the opaque stuff? Tryptamine chemistry leaves me so dumbfounded every time, yet I've done it a couple of times already.
Also I was a little confused, you were left with oil after evaporating the DCM that you used to extract the tryptamine after basification? It suddenly turned into a nice solid after washing with acetonitrile? What's the photo with precipitate? Thanks in advance to y'all.

IMG_20201107_170054-min.jpg - 247kBIMG_20201107_142604-min.jpg - 453kBIMG_20201107_142612-min.jpg - 413kB

mackolol - 7-11-2020 at 08:38

Maybe try to heat it up when adding NaOH. Always, when after addition of NaOH solution the whole thing doesn't crash out nicely, I add more NaOH in solid form to it. At first, I have thought, that it just needs more NaOH to break the buffer, so I just added straightly NaOH as I was too lazy to dissolve it once again. But it turns out that it's the heat of exothermic dissolution that helps the reaction, as probably it breaks the tryptamine-acetophenone ketimine leaving tryptamine crystals, contaminated with just the same coloured oil as in your 1st attachment. After filtering the whole thing, the oil just goes with liquids.
So don't cool your NaOH solution before adding.

ArbuzToWoda - 7-11-2020 at 09:55

Quote: Originally posted by mackolol  
Maybe try to heat it up when adding NaOH. Always, when after addition of NaOH solution the whole thing doesn't crash out nicely, I add more NaOH in solid form to it. At first, I have thought, that it just needs more NaOH to break the buffer, so I just added straightly NaOH as I was too lazy to dissolve it once again. But it turns out that it's the heat of exothermic dissolution that helps the reaction, as probably it breaks the tryptamine-acetophenone ketimine leaving tryptamine crystals, contaminated with just the same coloured oil as in your 1st attachment. After filtering the whole thing, the oil just goes with liquids.
So don't cool your NaOH solution before adding.

Wouldn't it be plausible to think that heating or refluxing this solution for a bit would lead to the same effect? Unless the imine can only be broken at the same moment as adding the NaOH, but I would call such claim a very brave one.

mackolol - 7-11-2020 at 12:45

It's just about the heat evolved so, yes. But why would you have to reflux it, if the heat from NaOH addition is just enough and you have to add the NaOH anyways...
This is just slight modification of the procedure, instead of adding dilute and cooled NaOH solution, add hot NaOH solution or solid NaOH.
I mean... it's obvious isn't it?

[Edited on 7-11-2020 by mackolol]

ArbuzToWoda - 7-11-2020 at 12:47

Quote: Originally posted by mackolol  
It's just about the heat evolved so, yes. But why would you have to reflux it, if the heat from NaOH addition is just enough and you have to add the NaOH anyways...
This is just slight modification of the procedure, instead of adding dilute and cooled NaOH solution, add hot NaOH solution or solid NaOH

I'm considering what to do now, after I've already added the hydroxide. I wouldn't like to add more, as the solution is already really concentrated in salts, DMSO and leftover hydroxide. I might try what you suggest tomorrow. Just heat it up, huh? Interesting.

mackolol - 7-11-2020 at 13:13

Yeah, do it, as far as I remember, you heated the mixture once when doing the oxalate thing and it also resulted in some oil formation.

Benignium - 7-11-2020 at 14:26

Quote: Originally posted by ArbuzToWoda  
...actually no brown or gooey stuff came out after adding all of the bicarbonate, so I'm not sure if the washing is neccessary...

No brown or gooey stuff for me either! I do not actually know if it's absolutely necessary to wash with DCM after adding the bicarbonate, but seeing as the pKa of tryptamine is 10.2 I figured it wouldn't hurt. Some tryptamine definitely gets washed but I suspect the amount is not significant.

Quote: Originally posted by ArbuzToWoda  
What do you guys suggest I do with this red/opaque mixture? I'm also a bit confused, many many sources claim that tryptamine is very weakly soluble in DCM, so how were you able to extract it using it?

I'm fairly certain you could just go ahead and do the DCM extractions now that you've added the NaOH. I, too, found conflicting information on the solubility of the base in DCM but found that it's actually quite good. I haven't tried it, but I have read that tryptamine is "insoluble" in chloroform, which originally led me to believe the same applies for DCM.


Quote: Originally posted by ArbuzToWoda  
Also I was a little confused, you were left with oil after evaporating the DCM that you used to extract the tryptamine after basification? It suddenly turned into a nice solid after washing with acetonitrile? What's the photo with precipitate? Thanks in advance to y'all.

Yes, that's pretty much how it happened. Once practically all of the DCM had evacuated the oil started to solidify into a tan, vaguely crystalline but waxy-looking mass. I didn't take a picture of it, unfortunately, but the picture with the precipitate under a layer of red MeCN was taken immediately after adding MeCN and stirring for some seconds. Outright crystals formed the moment MeCN touched the oil.


I'm away from home right now but I will carry out the rest of the oxalate purification and see if that helps me confirm that the product contains tryptamine. Be weird if it didn't, right? :)



ArbuzToWoda - 7-11-2020 at 15:07

Are you going to perform or give it to someone to perform the dimethylation? That would be an okay way to test the identity of your product. Do you think the acetonitrile could be substituted with anything else? Or whether it's needed at all? Maybe the residue could be just dissolved in a tiny quantity of methanol and then fumaric-acid-saturated acetone or oxalic acid acetone solution could be added?

ArbuzToWoda - 8-11-2020 at 08:59

Extracted the red goop with 120ml DCM. I figured more wouldn't be neccessary, as pretty much all of the color was in the DCM washing after the first 50ml. Evaporated it and I'm left with a red goopy gel that refuses to crystallize. I don't think that there's much DCM left there, even when heated up to 100C there wasn't any boiling you'd see if there was CH2Cl2 left. Maybe the acetonitrile really saves the day? No idea.

mackolol - 8-11-2020 at 13:02

The acetonitrile is very good idea. I didn't know that way, thanks benignium, it surely comes in handy, when performing this reaction.
The fact that it isn't soluble in chloroform but is in DCM is also interesting, if true...
This would explain why, I would experience some losses when washing acidic tryptamine solution with DCM, but not with chloroform

ArbuzToWoda - 8-11-2020 at 13:24

Quote: Originally posted by mackolol  
The acetonitrile is very good idea. I didn't know that way, thanks benignium, it surely comes in handy, when performing this reaction.
The fact that it isn't soluble in chloroform but is in DCM is also interesting, if true...
This would explain why, I would experience some losses when washing acidic tryptamine solution with DCM, but not with chloroform

No, that still doesn't make any sense. Tryptamine in it's salted form is protonated and therefore cannot be possibly soluble in DCM in amounts greater than miniscule.

mackolol - 8-11-2020 at 23:59

Quote: Originally posted by ArbuzToWoda  

No, that still doesn't make any sense. Tryptamine in it's salted form is protonated and therefore cannot be possibly soluble in DCM in amounts greater than miniscule.

But the salt is acetate, so it's organic, maybe that's the reason, organic salts should be more soluble in organic solvents than inorganic ones.

ArbuzToWoda - 9-11-2020 at 01:13

Quote: Originally posted by mackolol  
Quote: Originally posted by ArbuzToWoda  

No, that still doesn't make any sense. Tryptamine in it's salted form is protonated and therefore cannot be possibly soluble in DCM in amounts greater than miniscule.

But the salt is acetate, so it's organic, maybe that's the reason, organic salts should be more soluble in organic solvents than inorganic ones.

If that were the case then I would be inclined to believe that salts such as sodium acetate would be even a bit soluble in organic solvents. The thing is, it doesn't even dissolve in such a MORE polar solvent as acetone. Therefore it cannot possibly dissolve in something even less polar. It's not a matter of being organic or inorganic, but of having a negative or positive charge. Tryptamine exists only as a molecule with R-NH3+ in the acetate form and therefore there's just no way for it to migrate into a layer that does not at all encourage electrolytic dissociation. How possibly could charges move around in a solvent that is as non-polar as DCM?

I might be wrong, but so far I'm pretty confident in these speculations.

mackolol - 9-11-2020 at 01:53

Sodium acetate does dissolve in acetone, its solubility is low, but it does 0,5g/kg. And sodium acetate includes metal ion, which won't dissolve so likely in oganic solvents. Tryptamine acetate is fully organic.
I'm not sure either, if it is soluble in DCM, but I don't deny it. Maybe someone who knows better can tell if tryptamine acetate could be soluble in DCM.
Maybe tryptamine reacts with DCM as DMT does and although it reacts extremely slowly, in form of ion it may react faster .
If not, then it might be its solubility in DCM/water solution when freebased.

mr_bovinejony - 9-11-2020 at 20:08

Tryptamine acetate is not soluble in dcm. I do my pulls from the post decarb mixture with store bought vinegar and then do a few dcm washes. A uv light on the dcm washes shows no glow like the aqueous solution of tryptamine acetate does.

mackolol - 10-11-2020 at 00:14

Quote: Originally posted by mr_bovinejony  
Tryptamine acetate is not soluble in dcm. I do my pulls from the post decarb mixture with store bought vinegar and then do a few dcm washes. A uv light on the dcm washes shows no glow like the aqueous solution of tryptamine acetate does.

Oh that's good. So it seems that for me it was some technical problem with DCM, although I have done it few times, it may be some sort of accident.

[Edited on 10-11-2020 by mackolol]

Benignium - 11-11-2020 at 03:53

Quote: Originally posted by mr_bovinejony  
How many times did you extract the post reaction mixture with acetic acid? You had mentioned using 60 grams of acetic acid and 300 mls of water, but I dont think the water would be any good if it's not acidic

What I meant to say was that to the reaction mixture was straight added 60 grams of acetic acid in some 300 milliliters of water. The point is to indeed make the mixture acidic so that impurities can be washed off using DCM.

Quote: Originally posted by ArbuzToWoda  
Are you going to perform or give it to someone to perform the dimethylation? That would be an okay way to test the identity of your product. Do you think the acetonitrile could be substituted with anything else? Or whether it's needed at all? Maybe the residue could be just dissolved in a tiny quantity of methanol and then fumaric-acid-saturated acetone or oxalic acid acetone solution could be added?

I am planning to react the product with iodomethane (need to prepare some first, but that shouldn't take too long as I already have everything I need) and go from there. I quite dislike the uncertainty going into it but that's what I get for lacking prowess, I guess. :)

I'm sure the acetonitrile isn't strictly necessary, in fact I think one could just skip it and go on to do the oxalic acid thing. It just seems to be an efficient way to get rid of most of the remaining impurity.

After trying out the oxalic acid method twice, it does seem to produce very clean material. It can be a bit annoying and time consuming to do, though.

Here's some 6 grams of the oxalate salt:


And here is some freebase:



Although the base looks almost yellow they're both the same off-white color. The automatic white balance of my phone camera just sucks sometimes.

I once more tried to melt the purified base in a beaker as well as by immersing it in oil in a sort of diving bell made from a glass pasteur pipette. Unfortunately it behaves exactly the same. Will not melt, eventually starts to sublime (>130 deg. C) and with stronger heating decomposes (>150 deg. C). One of the salts might work better.




mr_bovinejony - 11-11-2020 at 09:52

Well that's a new one, I've always seen it extracted with portions of acid, never seen the whole mixture acidified that way! But it looks like it worked fine for you. Maybe since your solvent is dmso is ends up cleaner. I mostly use straight acetophenone which is a disaster every time.

ArbuzToWoda - 11-11-2020 at 09:58

There's no use trying to extract such a mixture using acid, as DMSO is miscible with water. What I wonder is - I'm still left with a red goo after evaporating the DCM and letting it sit in the freezer for a couple of days. I measured it to weigh around 15g and added 60ml of methanol and 5g of dried oxalic acid, as I didn't have any more. I'll dry and add some more tomorrow. @Benignium, how exactly did you do the oxalic acid purification? Just dumped it all into the methanol and heated up? And then it started crystallizing?

mr_bovinejony - 13-11-2020 at 07:44

That's strange that you have a red oil, have you tried doing some hexane or naphtha pulls on it for further purification? That's how I did it at least, then decant the boiling hexane/naphtha off the oil and evaporate to leave the tan oil which can be easily crystallized

ArbuzToWoda - 13-11-2020 at 07:58

Total 15g of dry oxalic acid was added, no crystals appeared even after refrigerating it. Not sure how to fix it now, do another AB and hope for the best? Tiring.

njl - 13-11-2020 at 19:13

You should try to concentrate the solution first to see if you can get a crop without anymore workup.

Benignium - 14-11-2020 at 06:47

Quote: Originally posted by ArbuzToWoda  
@Benignium, how exactly did you do the oxalic acid purification? Just dumped it all into the methanol and heated up? And then it started crystallizing?


I tried dissolving the acid and the tryptamine (I'll just go ahead and call it that) in methanol at the same time but found dissolving them separately and then mixing the resulting clear solutions more pleasant. When dumped into methanol simultaneously, an instant slurry forms whereas combining ready-made solutions enables the growth of proper(ish) crystals. Concentration is very important and using too much methanol is a source of great existential dread. Also, I always make sure that my methanol is dry by distilling it from a suspension of anhydrous magnesium sulfate. I'm not sure how the presence of water in the methanol influences this particular procedure but it's definitely worth noting.

Equally important is to not add too much oxalic acid. I found that an equal weight of the dihydrate is more than plenty. Granted, this has some water in it and that may again have consequences. Water can be removed easily; just evaporate everything, dry the residue and start over with minimal boiling methanol. Excess oxalic acid on the other hand would require trying out different solvents, decomposition by hydrogen peroxide, precipitating as iron(II) oxalate or some other form of obscure fuckery.

I cannot recommend naphtha, hexane, heptane, petroleum ether etc. since in my case at least, the tryptamine is very poorly soluble in it even when kept at reflux for a while. Probably less than 0.1% solubility with 60-90 pet ether.

It's not a particularly relaxing process but don't give up trying! :)

[Edited on 14-11-2020 by Benignium]

Benignium - 1-12-2020 at 11:13

I attempted a method of formylating 1023 milligrams of the tryptamine by refluxing in ethyl formate for 24 hours. Once more I have no idea if I achieved the desired result. This is just a result.

The first photo is taken one hour into reflux. As a precaution I used foil to shield the process from light. Second one is taken after 24 hours of reflux. The procedure I am following describes the mixture as becoming "homogenous". Mine certainly didn't, but filtering through cotton resulted in a perfectly clear filtrate. Left behind was less than 100 milligrams of insoluble white impurity.




The filtrate was then stripped of solvent by first distilling in a 90 degree water bath, then detaching the distillation equipment and replacing solvent vapors in the flask with argon five times until the dark brownish red oily residue had mostly solidified.





When I manage to get LAH at a reasonable price I will attempt to follow through with the rest of the procedure. Until then, I have made some iodomethane which I aim to react with the rest of my tryptamine sample, followed by conversion of the iodide salt to chloride, and pyrolysis of said chloride to potentially yield very crude N,N-dimethyltryptamine which could be purified reasonably well and easily identified. I really hope that at least one of these approaches will work out.




[Edited on 2-12-2020 by Benignium]

ArbuzToWoda - 1-12-2020 at 11:23

Looks nice. Why did this route specifically catch your eye? I've heard only good things about NaBH4/HCHO. Also you don't need pyrolysis if you want to go via the ammonium salt, it's sufficient to just reflux it in ethanolamine. And that's much cleaner!

Benignium - 1-12-2020 at 14:12

Quote: Originally posted by ArbuzToWoda  
Looks nice. Why did this route specifically catch your eye? I've heard only good things about NaBH4/HCHO. Also you don't need pyrolysis if you want to go via the ammonium salt, it's sufficient to just reflux it in ethanolamine. And that's much cleaner!


Thanks! The procedure seems elegant, relatively non-toxic and particularly high-yielding (1.15 grams of N,N-dimethyltryptamine from 1 gram of tryptamine was reported - that would be 97.85% of theory!). I'm interested to see how reproducible it is. However, from what little I've read about the procedure I fully anticipate it to be full of surprises. Especially since I've been entertaining the thought of substituting 1,4-dioxane for THF, held at a temperature of 60-70 deg. C.

Thank you for the ethanolamine tip! That would indeed be way cleaner. I may purchase some THF, too. We'll see.

Oh, and the NaBH4/HCHO method - I was under the impression that the aldehyde will mostly get reduced before it has time to form the imine intermediate. I did also read about performing the reaction at very low temperatures with simultaneous dropwise addition of NaBH4 and 37% formalin (or perhaps methanol solution?) to the reaction mixture. I haven't investigated any further, though I would love to hear any additional details you might have! :)

[Edited on 1-12-2020 by Benignium]

ArbuzToWoda - 1-12-2020 at 15:14

Oh yes, I have researched it quite a bit.
Here are some places you could gather information from.
Vespiary threads:
1. https://www.thevespiary.org/talk/index.php?topic=1954.40
2. https://www.thevespiary.org/talk/index.php?topic=16470.40

Hyperlab threads (a shit ton to read, a lot of info too)
1. https://hyperlab.info/inv/index.php?s=&act=ST&f=17&a...
2. https://hyperlab.info/inv/index.php?s=&act=ST&f=17&a...

There are some threads here also. You should be able to find them just fine. Even that:

Quote:

From SciMad, applicable to plain old tryptamine:
"5-Methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine, 5-MeO-DMT
5-methoxy-tryptamine freebase (12.5 g, 63 mmol, 95% pure) was dissolved in MeOH (250 mL) and the solution was cooled to 0 °C with a ice/salt bath. There was then added, while controling the temperature to not go above 5 °C, in six portions espaced by 15 min : 5 g of 36% HCHO solution in MeOH (39% m/v) followed after 10 sec by NaBH4 (1.2 g, powder). Hence in total during 1h30 there was added 6 x (5 g 36% HCHO in MeOH + 1.2 g NaBH4) = 10.8 g HCHO (360 mmol, 6 eq) and 7.2 g NaBH4 (189 mmol, 3 eq). After each addition an exothermic reaction occur and the temperature must be controlled to stay under 5 °C. The conversion of 5-MeO-T to 5-MeO-DMT was complete under these conditions. The solvent was evaporated, water was added followed by NaOH until pH 12 and the residue was extracted with CH2Cl2. Drying over Na2CO3, filtration, washing with CH2Cl2 and recrystallization from boiling hexanes yielded pale yellow crystals (8.5 g, 62%), >99% pure by NMR and HPLC."

And from a patent I dug up about substituted tryptamines:
"A solution of 35% aqueous formaldehyde (140 ml in 70 ml of methanol) and sodium tetrahydroborate (10 g in 140 ml of water) is added dropwise at the same time to the reaction mixture at the temperature of 10-15°C during 1 hour. The mixture is then stirred at the temperature of 30 °C for another 6 hours. 1 g of activated charcoal is added and after 10 mins the mixture is filtered through diatomite. Then, pH of the solution is adjusted to ca. 9 by addition of 10% aqueous Na2CO3. After that, MeOH is removed by distillation and the product is extracted with ethyl acetate (3 x 100 ml). The solution of the crude product is concentrated under reduced pressure. The evaporation residue is dissolved in ethanol (20 ml) and added dropwise to a solution of fumaric acid (4 g) in ethanol (80 ml). The mixture is stirred at the laboratory temperature for 1 hour. The separated crystals are filtered and washed with ethanol."

If you're scared of the HCHO reduction you could try using sodium triacetoxyborohydride, some people think it's superior as it reduces imines more readily. I don't know if it's true, although I have seen reports claiming success with both this and other methods. Especially the one presented in "Hamilton's Pharmacopeia" in the episode "Wizards of DMT". I think you'd find that one very ellegant ;)

mackolol - 2-12-2020 at 02:36

Ethanolamine doesn't work, at least for me.
Nobody has really reported success with this way and there are as many threads that tell that ethanolamine doesn't work as those who tell that it does.

Benignium - 18-3-2021 at 13:35

So I did some more reading.

As rather smugly put by Nicodem, there really is nothing to this. There are plenty of tried and tested approaches that seem often overlooked. Inspired, and feeling personally attacked, I chose to try the following:

Commercial "100%" L-tryptophan (25 g), acetophenone (5 g), DMSO (5 mL) and xylene (75 g) were placed in a 250 mL Erlenmeyer equipped with a Claisen adapter to which were attached a gas line that lead to the mixture surface as well as a condenser. On top of the condenser was attached a gas inlet adapter with a stopcock. The apparatus was purged with argon, a plastic bag filled with argon was fixed to the gas adapter and the stopcock was closed. The argon cylinder was replaced with a hose leading to mineral oil in a test tube. With strong stirring the mixture was heated to reflux for 20 hours. The reaction seemed essentially complete after 10 hours, but unreacted tryptophan had accumulated on the walls and refluxing was continued for ten more hours in hopes that the tryptophan would get flushed down and decarboxylated. This did not happen, in fact it appeared that only decomposition of the product had taken place during the last ten hours.

Heating was ceased and the stopcock opened to allow argon from the bag into the apparatus as it cooled.

Before reaction


10 hours into the reaction


After 20 hours



To the cooled reaction mixture was added an equivalent volume (~125 mL) of 5% acetic acid, and the mixture was stirred for some hours with mild heating (<50°C). After this arbitrary period of time the mixture was gravity filtered through cotton twice and the layers were separated. The organic layer was extracted with a small portion of water and discarded. The aqueous layers were combined, filtered through cotton and heated to 65°C during which NaCl (50g) and water (50 mL) were added, and a clear solution was obtained. This was then refrigerated and slow crystal growth was observed over 2-3 days. After vacuum filtration and air drying 10 grams of tryptamine hydrochloride was obtained. The solution was concentrated to a volume of 200 mL by gentle heating and refrigerated to yield 5 more grams of product. The remaining solution was basified and extracted with ethyl acetate. The extracted product was taken up in dilute hydrochloric acid and the aqueous solution evaporated to dryness on a 75°C hotplate overnight which caused the product (approximately 2-3 grams) to decompose to an unknown extent. The decomposed material was discarded.

One gram of the obtained hydrochloride was dissolved in water with the help of microwave radiation and combined with 10 mL of 10% NaOH solution in a 25 mL beaker. A heavy amber colored oil separated and, after washing it with water, crystallized to a light brown hard, waxy mass. A portion of the solid material was placed in a test tube under mineral oil and the test tube was placed in a 116°C propylene glycol bath, causing the solids to melt completely.

Filtered aqueous solution


Tryptamine hydrochloride


Melting point test



The melting point test isn't perfect, but still leads me to believe that I've succeeded. The yield of obtained hydrochloride corresponds to 62.3% which isn't too bad, and will doubtlessly be improved by cutting the reaction time in half and being more careful during work up in order to obtain the last few grams from the salt solution.

During the reaction, I kept an eye on the escaping carbon dioxide by leading it through mineral oil. Based on approximate bubble size and frequency, I had estimated the reaction to take as long as nearly 200 hours. Fortunately this wasn't the case, but I can't help but wonder what happened to the carbon dioxide that was definitely evolved but didn't make it out of the system. My best guess is that it reacted with the imine and tryptamine carbonate was formed. To be perfectly honest, I have no idea if that's even possible.

The reaction proceeded nicely, the workup was great, the reagents were cheap the product was significantly cleaner. Overall this method is superior in every way compared to the one I opened this thread with.

I attempted the formylation route outlined by Shulgin, and it failed. This may be due to degradation of the intermediate during storage, as a dramatic change in appearance was observed.
I also attempted the reductive amination utilizing triacetoxyborohydride that was demonstrated in Hamilton's Pharmacopeia I did not have DCE, so I tried to replace it with a mixture of DCM (to better dissolve the supposed tryptamine) and THF (to act as the carrier for the reducing agent where the use of DCM resulted in a thick, unusable foam). After arbitrarily calling it, a definitely DMT-like sticky wax was effortlessly fished out from the reaction solution, that roughly corresponded to the expected product by mass. However, this material degraded on heating when it had been reacted with fumaric acid and dissolution in isopropanol was attempted. It may still have contained N,N-dimethyltryptamine, but the amount had to have been negligible. This may be due to stopping the reaction too early (NMT?) as the solvent system definitely wasn't ideal, or due to impure starting material.
Going forward I can finally utilize thin layer chromatography, and I've also placed an order for dichloroethane.

Another approach I want to try is the more direct approach to reductive amination using formaldehyde and borohydride at 0-5°C.

I will most probably dedicate a thread to the alkylations of tryptamine and, with any luck, 5-methoxytryptamine.



ArbuzToWoda - 18-3-2021 at 13:39

Looking forward to it. You're a godsend in matter of experimental observartions.

ChemichaelRXN - 19-3-2021 at 16:26

I was thinking of this same reaction out of a list i want to do.
I have the DMSO, Acetophenone, acetonitrile and l-tryptophan.

Thanks for the writeup that i can use as a guide and I love your clever solvent extraction method because DMSO is a challenging one to use sometimes.

I will have tryptophan, doing the same reaction to see the results and i may post it if i am not lazy. It sounds like a fun experiment.

image.jpg - 1.3MB image.jpg - 1.4MB



[Edited on 20-3-2021 by ChemichaelRXN]

njl - 20-3-2021 at 06:23

Melatonin is not an amino acid, it can't undergo this reaction.

ChemichaelRXN - 20-3-2021 at 09:49

Sorry for the error, for some reason thinking melatonin had that carboxylic acid. You would need 5-Methoxy-L-tryptophan (CAS 25197-96-0) *
I will just start with mexamine if I needed it. I am still messing around with the Eschweiler-Clarke Reaction.

Have a nice weekend.

njl - 21-3-2021 at 07:26

Melatonin is nice because the hydrolysis is easy and clean, leaving fairly pure mexamine with just NaOH/H2O/Heat.