Sciencemadness Discussion Board

forum market/trading section?

Ubya - 29-5-2020 at 09:41

we have mario840 selling chemicals, Dr.Bob selling glassware, and other guys popping here and there wanting to trade something (the famous teflon adapter for high temperature distillations in steel cans).
Many forums already have a section where users can post things they sell, is there a reason why sciencemadness hasn't one?

while reagents and apparatus acquisition already fits, i see that it is mostly used to understand how to make/get something otc or how to produce something by themselves, the trading area instead would be only for trading between users.

are there issues with this idea?

arkoma - 29-5-2020 at 10:45

I've bought quite a few things from members here over the years. Usually, its something like excess oddball reagents from a group buy. But usually just someone with a dab of this or that, and so far works pretty good w/o a separate section.

Not a bad idea mind you, but I just don't see the "traffic".

Ark

P.S. And I have not once EVER been screwed by a SM member. Something to be said for that.

fusso - 29-5-2020 at 10:49

What about adding access requirements like whimsy & reference?

Ubya - 29-5-2020 at 10:55

yup i agree with you, we are not a commercial operation, the idea of a separate section was mostly to encourage sharing with other members.
an example would be "i bought 1kg of this compound because it was just 10% more than the 100g i needed, someone wants some?"
or yeah group buys, if i wasn't so distant from 90% of you it could be quite cheaper to buy stuff in bulk and thane divide it between us

Ubya - 29-5-2020 at 10:57

Quote: Originally posted by fusso  
What about adding access requirements like whimsy & reference?


to block new guys just trying to sell drugs?
yeah why not, like a 100 posts limit before being able to see the section

fusso - 29-5-2020 at 11:07

Now I realise 1 problem: what if someone just wanna sell his deceased grandpa's stock but not yet reach the contribution requirement?

Ubya - 29-5-2020 at 11:11

Quote: Originally posted by fusso  
Now I realise 1 problem: what if someone just wanna sell his deceased grandpa's stock but not yet reach the contribution requirement?

gotta wait and be active on the forum

fusso - 29-5-2020 at 11:25

Quote: Originally posted by Ubya  
Quote: Originally posted by fusso  
Now I realise 1 problem: what if someone just wanna sell his deceased grandpa's stock but not yet reach the contribution requirement?

gotta wait and be active on the forum
Oh never mind, he can just email the admins to help him post assume he doesn't have an account.

B(a)P - 29-5-2020 at 12:15

I like the idea, though nothing has prevented members selling to members without it in the past. I have also purchased from other members and it has always gone well.

mayko - 29-5-2020 at 13:40

it's been tried at least once before (SynthSource, here: https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=30... ) but there wasn't enough trading volume at the time to really keep it moving

Ubya - 29-5-2020 at 14:49

Quote: Originally posted by mayko  
it's been tried at least once before (SynthSource, here: https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=30... ) but there wasn't enough trading volume at the time to really keep it moving


i was pretty sure there was something already, but i couldn't find it, so i made this post

morganbw - 29-5-2020 at 16:13

I guess that I may be an oddball but what is wrong with the way things have been going?

j_sum1 - 29-5-2020 at 16:16

I have always loved this idea. It has come up a few times and we have always faced the same complications and reached the same conclusions.

Firstly, setting up SM as a buy swap sell site has some legal implications. It makes SM a cartier for a service. I think that is beyond the original vision and goal that Polverone had when creating the site.
Secondly, having a dedicated section kind of implies that SM will be arbiter of any transactions that go sour. These things have happened in the past. The board policy has settled to a position where you can advertise and make requests publicly but the transaction takes place in private.
Thirdly, and perhaps most significantly is the minimal demand for a separate section. Synthsource kind of proved that with its low traffic. (It did have other problems too.) The status quo is actually working just fine. Creating a new forum is a solution to a problem that does not actually exist.

I am happy to be proved incorrect on any of these points.

karlos³ - 29-5-2020 at 17:01

Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  
The status quo is actually working just fine. Creating a new forum is a solution to a problem that does not actually exist.

This exactly.
It is good the way it is, you can put anything of your leftovers up to sell, and there are quite a few of whom you can get whatever you desire else.

Creating something new just won't make any difference at this point.
It worked this way for a very long time now, and this implies that the saying, if its not broken don't fix it, is very ture on our situation here.

Steam - 29-5-2020 at 17:19

I think a Market section would be nice. As for demand and volume, I would imagine the volume would increase if there were a devoted section.
Lots of forms have "for sale" and "market" sections so I don't see any problem with sciencemadness creating on. Not giving legal advice here J_sum, but there is a difference between a website that facilitates transactions (think ebay, etsy, paypal, etc) and a website that simply allows communication of offers/requests for offers (such as most internet forums). The major difference is that e-commerce websites enter into contractual agreements with both the buyers and sellers and take a fee of the listing which further consummates the contract, where is websites such as forums are simply mediums where individuals communicate wishes to sell and buy items. It is the responsibility of the users of the form to enter into agreeable contracts with other users; it is not the responsibly of the messaging service (the forum) to ensure that those contracts are consummated or to arbitrate any breach of contract (unless the forum desires such responsibility, which most forums do not). Perhaps you are familiar with some occurrences of forums being dragged into disputes of a third party jsum. My guess would be that those forums went beyond a simple buy/sell listing to a more complex transaction service which actually "touched" the exchange in some way, but I might be wrong.

To be clear, once sciencemadness accepts money in any way for the listings, you are absolutely right that it will be legally accountable for the transaction which is why there should be no such option.

It is not clear to me how a "market" section of a forum would be any different than the current system. Users could place advertisements for things which they want to sell or buy in the section, and then could use whatever means they wanted to for the exchange. I personally have done dozens of transactions with fellow forum members all of which were done with papal and have never had a problem, but if I did, I would simply take the problem up with the person and then with paypal. In fact, I believe that paypal will insure some of its transactions for buyers.

However, when you really get down to it, we already have a section called "Reagents and Apparatus Acquisition" which is essentially a market already... it just has a bunch of miscellaneous posts in it. The fact is, ebay and such websites are FAR better for selling laboratory chemicals than ScienceMadness, and really the forum doesn't even want that market. However, there is a market for lab chemicals which ebay and the like cannot sell. These include things like your direct precursors, White nitric and the like, Carbon Tet, Mercury compounds, significantly radioactive materials, *insert favorite useful but banned chemical here*. However, I think this forums has always tried to shy away from the "illegal" which is one of the reasons this forum has stayed around for so long. I remember like 10 or so years ago when everyday there seemed to be a question that stemmed from an article on Erowid or the like- I don't see that much anymore. Anyway, I don't think that is a market that anyone wants on ScienceMadness.

I think ultimately, I agree with J_sum that adding an additional section is a bad idea. However, perhaps we can revamp the reagents&acquisition section to make it more clear who is buying and who is selling. Perhaps WTB and WTS labels would be useful, or maybe there could be some kind of sticker so that only the classifies would be visible under the section. Either way, there needs to be more organization in the reagents & acquisition section to facilitate easier navigation through the posts.

karlos³ - 29-5-2020 at 17:54

Quote: Originally posted by Steam  

It is not clear to me how a "market" section of a forum would be any different than the current system.

Exactly.
Then why change it the way it is?
As you said, it is no different.

j_sum1 - 29-5-2020 at 19:10

My comment concerning legalities is not just with reference to the transactional side of things. Tha concern is more that we sometimes d|al with more sensitive items and across juristictional boundaries. If SM has a dedicated space for such activity then it could be construed by some to be promoting illicit actions.
Maybe the risk is low. But we do know we are watched. And if things are working well ss is, then there is no need for change.

My desire for a marketplace section is more social anyway: Whoa! Look at all these goodies being sold by my mates.

arkoma - 29-5-2020 at 20:30

Personally, I like the fact that some of my "exotics" were private purchases from members here via U2U. No listing, no watchers......


*edit* TBAB, TEMPO, NaBH4 blah blah

not stuff I want trailing off my eBay acct or even available

*edit*
Quote:
My desire for a marketplace section is more social anyway: Whoa! Look at all these goodies being sold by my mates.
LOL. I get that 100% about the social thing, why I love Secret Santa every year, and know I have gotten some way cool goodies from members here. And I mean REALLY cool stuff, and at least twice out of the blue. Privately though. This "place" has a pretty dang high calibre of members and I gotta say, at the 12 hour mark of downtime the other day thought I was gonna stroke out.

[Edited on 5-30-2020 by arkoma]

[Edited on 5-30-2020 by arkoma]

karlos³ - 29-5-2020 at 22:25

Quote: Originally posted by arkoma  
LOL. I get that 100% about the social thing, why I love Secret Santa every year

Oh man what a remembrance... I really wanted to participate last year, and then me moving was delayed so much, and then the move itself was too, and then I hadn't even reliable internet in early december at the time participation had stopped :(
This was one of the things that were most annoying, honestly, I really would have liked to participate in it.
Already wanted the year before but guess it, I just had moved and it was just like the year after, only worse...

But I am well prepared this year, and I don't plan to move anymore for at least 3 years :D
This time nothing will stop me from taking part in this, and it surely will be fun :)

Ubya - 30-5-2020 at 08:01
Quote:

Many forums already have a section where users can post things they sell, is there a reason why sciencemadness hasn't one?


well i got my answers, thanks guys, they seem pretty reasonable, i liked the idea of a section for just trading between us, but it can already be done, just not as "tidy".