Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Company is extracting phosphates from urine for crops

symboom - 4-5-2020 at 11:01

people are thinking like mad scientist when they are desperate for phosphates for farming

Phosphorus is essential for growing crops, but global reserves are shrinking fast. Now researchers are looking for ways to recycle the valuable mineral — by harvesting human urine.

The mobile plant processes pee into liquid fertilizer and distilled water. Once human business has been collected in a steel tank next to the urinal, bacteria and algae are added to turn the solid excrement into sludge, while the wastewater is purified — by up to 90% — to eliminate pollutants, germs and unpleasant odors.

Magnesium oxide is then added to bind the phosphorus, leading to the formation of magnesium ammonium phosphate (MAP) — also known as struvite. Any residues from medications are filtered out with activated carbon.

Https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.dw.com/en/phosphorus-in-our-pee-the-new-gold/a-53225198

[Edited on 4-5-2020 by symboom]

[Edited on 4-5-2020 by symboom]

G-Coupled - 4-5-2020 at 14:11

They're obviously taking the piss.






I'll let myself out...

SWIM - 4-5-2020 at 18:13

In my garden I just apply it directly.

At least in the back yard.


This thread makes me think of that Anthony Burgess novel, The Wanting Seed.

It was a nice Pelphase while it lasted.

brubei - 4-5-2020 at 19:50

Problem with mining phophorus, lets mine magnesium !

[Edited on 5-5-2020 by brubei]

karlos³ - 4-5-2020 at 20:08

Interphase has already long begun.

Copenhagen1968 - 5-5-2020 at 01:00

Quote: Originally posted by symboom  

The mobile plant processes pee into liquid fertilizer and distilled water. Once human business has been collected in a steel tank next to the urinal, [...]


Huh?
why not place the plant close to the source AND the recipient? In Danmark there are 5.6M people; there are 12.9M pigs + 1.5M cows just pissing away, and they dont move much. That would make more sense businesswise instead of mobile factories.

Secondly, using human waste for food production has a bad ring to it, in my mind. The risk of infections are too big.

draculic acid69 - 5-5-2020 at 03:17

Quote: Originally posted by G-Coupled  
They're obviously taking the piss.






I'll let myself out...


Haha
Nice one.

draculic acid69 - 5-5-2020 at 03:27

I'm surprised that there not already doing this at sewage treatment plants.
I've seen a YouTube video about phosphorus mining in China and there ripping up panda habitat to get it out and it creates toxic runoff that's just soaking back into the land. That country is fucking itself just to be the centre of industry. It won't last but the pollution will.

zwt2 - 5-5-2020 at 05:59

Some sewage plants have been doing this for years, but it's mainly to limit the amount of phosphorus in runoff entering the waterways. It's not yet economical to recover the phosphorus purely for resale. When it is, it'll be a Brave New World:

Quote:
"Phosphorus recovery," explained Henry telegraphically. "On their way up the chimney the gases go through four separate treatments. P2O5 used to go right out of circulation every time they cremated some one. Now they recover over ninety-eight per cent of it. More than a kilo and a half per adult corpse.

G-Coupled - 5-5-2020 at 07:53

Quote: Originally posted by zwt2  
Some sewage plants have been doing this for years, but it's mainly to limit the amount of phosphorus in runoff entering the waterways. It's not yet economical to recover the phosphorus purely for resale. When it is, it'll be a Brave New World:

Quote:
"Phosphorus recovery," explained Henry telegraphically. "On their way up the chimney the gases go through four separate treatments. P2O5 used to go right out of circulation every time they cremated some one. Now they recover over ninety-eight per cent of it. More than a kilo and a half per adult corpse.


Wow - in the past, in summertime, I'd bet there grew some lovely fat flowers downwind of those crematoria....

[Edited on 5-5-2020 by G-Coupled]

RogueRose - 5-5-2020 at 10:08

I ran the numbers a while back and calculated the average daily excretion of phosphorus and urea for humans and averaged it with the US population. I found that there was about 600 million $ of phosphorus excreted yearly by the US in waste streams and about double that in nitrogen (using bulk tonnage rates of Urea and phosphorus fertilizers - both about $450/ton) Adding in the processing of the waste/water & cost of the water used with each flush came out to a total of $2.4 billion a year flushed down the toilet. That is for a population of 330 million.

If both the P & N can be extracted from the waste, it would probably be worth it b/c phosphate mining is one of the most harmful practices and there are few locations and reserves globally. I think Florida is a large source but it's locked up in a calcium phosphate and a very large by product from the production is CaSO4, but for some reason all this sulfate is radio active and can't be used normally and IIRC, has to be stockpiled or used as a filling, so it's all pretty much waste (hazardous at that).

I could dig up the amounts if anyone is really interested, they are in a spreadsheet somewhere

RogueRose - 5-5-2020 at 10:16

Quote: Originally posted by G-Coupled  
Quote: Originally posted by zwt2  
Some sewage plants have been doing this for years, but it's mainly to limit the amount of phosphorus in runoff entering the waterways. It's not yet economical to recover the phosphorus purely for resale. When it is, it'll be a Brave New World:

Quote:
"Phosphorus recovery," explained Henry telegraphically. "On their way up the chimney the gases go through four separate treatments. P2O5 used to go right out of circulation every time they cremated some one. Now they recover over ninety-eight per cent of it. More than a kilo and a half per adult corpse.


Wow - in the past, in summertime, I'd bet there grew some lovely fat flowers downwind of those crematoria....
[Edited on 5-5-2020 by G-Coupled]


I have to really question if it is 3lbs of P2O5, which is 36% P by weight, so over a pound of P per body. That seems very high, unless there might be some in the fuel they use, like wood maybe?? I don't know that wood even had much P in it though. This seems high, though I did check the compostion of the human body and it says 1% P by weight, 1.5% Ca and .4% K. I have a hard time seeing calcium being only 50% more than P with all the bone mass. I wonder where all the phosphorus comes from and where it is used in the body?


[Edited on 5-6-2020 by RogueRose]

G-Coupled - 6-5-2020 at 01:57

Quote: Originally posted by RogueRose  
... have a hard time seeing calcium being only 50% more than P with all the bone mass. I wonder where all the phosphorus comes from and where it is used in the body?


ATP? Does that constitute a fair amount, possibly?

B(a)P - 6-5-2020 at 02:24

Phosphate group nucleotides would make up a fair bit I would think.

Tsjerk - 6-5-2020 at 02:24

Phosphate is in bones, metabolites, proteins, sugars, DNA... about anywhere.

Crematoria use gas, not wood.

If the human body contains 1% P, I get to 2.2 Kg of P2O5 for a 80 Kg human.