Sciencemadness Discussion Board

making CCl4 help

Armus_ - 24-1-2020 at 09:57

i am trying to see if there is a way to make CCl4 from chloroform but im not sure if this even works. wikipedia says:

"Chloroform undergoes further chlorination to yield carbon tetrachloride (CCl4):

CHCl3 + Cl2 → CCl4 + HCl"

what are the specifics of this reaction like a certian temp and how do you know when your done?

B(a)P - 24-1-2020 at 10:53

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=1424

milovess - 24-1-2020 at 13:48

Probably the same as pluging Chlorine through Acetone. You need to pass Chlorine through pipe that reaches the bottom of a tall bottle which contains the triChloro Methane. For the Acetone I needed to cool it externaly because the chlorination was exothermic. In case of HCCL3 I don't know.

DavidJR - 24-1-2020 at 15:40

It's not quite as simple as just bubbling chlorine into chloroform. You need to generate radicals for this to work - it is a free radical chlorination after all. This can be done pretty easily by exposing the solution of chlorine in chloroform to strong UV-C light.

Get a germicidal UV-C lamp on eBay and that will do the job. The light from these is relatively hazardous but fortunately it is easily blocked. Wear long sleeves, nitrile gloves, and polycarbonate specs to protect your skin and eyes. Even then you should minimise your exposure.

Don't bother trying to use a blacklight, it doesn't really work.

I made a small amount of CCl4 this way by saturating chloroform with chlorine, putting it in sealed soda lime glass vials, and irradiating with the germicidal lamp until the chlorine colour disappeared. Then, I carefully opened the vials, venting the HCl gas, before re-saturating the mixture with chlorine and repeating (several cycles, don't remember how many I did). During irradiation I placed several 30ml vials around the lamp surrounded by a shroud of aluminium foil as a reflector.

I would not really recommend doing it this way because it's not very time efficient compared to continuously bubbling in a slow stream of chlorine during UV exposure. Also, using sealed vials is probably not very safe as a considerable pressure builds up.

Another thing to be aware of is that glass blocks UV-C wavelengths to some extent. Soda lime glass blocks less than borosilicate, and of course the thin walls of a vial will block less light than the relatively thick walls of a flask. The best thing to use would be a vessel made of quartz glass (aka fused silica) which does not absorb much UV-C (and it is what the glass of the lamp is made of). Cheapest way to get this is to look for replacement parts for pond water filter systems that use UV-C to kill nasties in the water. I have one and it's basically an enormous test tube, though the tube type with both ends open is more common.

Assured Fish - 24-1-2020 at 16:01

Lets make this even easier.
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=14927

milovess - 24-1-2020 at 16:19

I really doubt you acomplished anything other than heating the flask (no UVC passes through soma lime glass) and if you didnt focus that light, you've created Ozone around you + radiated your semen badly enough so when you impregnate a woman, she will birth retards-mutants (unless you covered your balls with Aluminum foil. On the other hand, Only small percentage UVB is able to pass thru Soda lime, while UVA (black light) will pass above 90% and should work as well since the Chlorine molecule decomposes into atoms at such wavelengths. I think your problem could have been the power. How much watts of light will influence couple of grams ? Does 6*10^23 electrons aka 26,801 Amperes playing 1 hour produce 6*10^23 photons to influence 6*10^23 Chlorine molecules aka 71 grams ?

Assured Fish - 24-1-2020 at 16:45

@milovess
You have a post history of illiterate crap and drug cookery, now you come here an pollute this thread with more of your bull shit.

PLEASE go away, leave this forum, do not come back, you have no place here.

Can the mods or someone please throw both of his posts here and this one of mine away and either give milovess a warning or suspend his account, he is beginning to think his crap is worth enough to answer other peoples legitimate questions.

XeonTheMGPony - 24-1-2020 at 16:47

Quote: Originally posted by milovess  
I really doubt you acomplished anything other than heating the flask (no UVC passes through soma lime glass) and if you didnt focus that light, you've created Ozone around you + radiated your semen badly enough so when you impregnate a woman, she will birth retards-mutants (unless you covered your balls with Aluminum foil. On the other hand, Only small percentage UVB is able to pass thru Soda lime, while UVA (black light) will pass above 90% and should work as well since the Chlorine molecule decomposes into atoms at such wavelengths. I think your problem could have been the power. How much watts of light will influence couple of grams ? Does 6*10^23 electrons aka 26,801 Amperes playing 1 hour produce 6*10^23 photons to influence 6*10^23 Chlorine molecules aka 71 grams ?


WTF? Lay off the meth, your brain function may return!

Armus_ - 25-1-2020 at 11:54

ok, so holy crap that was a turn of events. I was really not expecting that, so I have a few questions

I looked at milovess posts and I don't see which one is making drugs which I'm kinda disappointed that people actually come here for that but yeah I can see that his posts scream that he doesn't know chem

but back to the topic.
I looked at the other threads that you guys linked and they were a good bit of help.
so @DavidJR, why didn't you just use sunlight? that would've worked instead of buying all these other products.

also a quote from one of the threads that I read from BromicAcid from a book he found in the library

"CaCN2
HCl
Hydrogen Chloride is passed over heated calcium cyanamide, yielding the products shown in the equation.
CaCN2 + HCl(g) ---> CaCl2 + CCl4(g) + 2NH3
Montemartini and Losana, Giorn. Chim. ind. applicata, 6, 325"

couldn't you just get conc. HCl and drip it on calcium cyanamide? Aqueous HCl is water-based of course and CCl4 is not soluble in water so why do you have to have in as a gas phase?

Assured Fish - 25-1-2020 at 19:59

I couldn't find the book, all i found was a book on sulfur compounds.

Calcium cyanamide is hydrolyzed in the presence of water to form free hydrogen cyanamide, this may interfere with the reaction.
The kind of temperatures involved would also likely exceed a couple hundred degrees.

Using a UV lamp to do a free radical halogenation of trichloromethane is just superior both for ease use and for the acquisition of materials.

DavidJR - 26-1-2020 at 16:03

Quote: Originally posted by milovess  
I really doubt you acomplished anything other than heating the flask (no UVC passes through soma lime glass) and if you didnt focus that light, you've created Ozone around you + radiated your semen badly enough so when you impregnate a woman, she will birth retards-mutants (unless you covered your balls with Aluminum foil. On the other hand, Only small percentage UVB is able to pass thru Soda lime, while UVA (black light) will pass above 90% and should work as well since the Chlorine molecule decomposes into atoms at such wavelengths. I think your problem could have been the power. How much watts of light will influence couple of grams ? Does 6*10^23 electrons aka 26,801 Amperes playing 1 hour produce 6*10^23 photons to influence 6*10^23 Chlorine molecules aka 71 grams ?


LOL. For starters I don't know why you think I "irradiated my semen". And even if I was to have mutant sperm I really couldn't give a damn, because I'm gay.

Also, I guarantee you I made carbon tetrachloride this way. It smells different to chloroform (though not a good idea to breathe it). It had the right boiling point. And why else would the chlorine colour disappear, and clouds of HCl come out?
Quote: Originally posted by Armus_  

so @DavidJR, why didn't you just use sunlight? that would've worked instead of buying all these other products.


Sun? What's that? I don't think we have sun here.


[Edited on 27-1-2020 by DavidJR]

sciece nerd - 26-1-2020 at 22:00

Also I don't think sunlight contains UV-C.(or it actually doesn't need UV-C to work?)

DavidJR - 27-1-2020 at 02:48

Well, the sun certainly emits UVC but it doesn't reach us because it's absorbed by the atmosphere. I don't think UVC is necessary but it does work very well. Sunlight probably can work but slowly. I tried using a blacklight and it didn't seem to be doing anything. Maybe it was just slow, I don't know.

sciece nerd - 27-1-2020 at 23:09

Quote: Originally posted by DavidJR  
Well, the sun certainly emits UVC but it doesn't reach us because it's absorbed by the atmosphere.

that's what I mean.

Tsjerk - 28-1-2020 at 02:00

There is an optimum somewhere between infrared and gamma. Infrared probably always hits your chlorine but will almost never create a radical. Gamma will always create a radical but will fly through most of the time. Somewhere in between there is an optimum.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/325760351_Wavelengt...

Armus_ - 30-1-2020 at 13:37

alright, ill try it in the summertime where the most sunlight hits. and i can update you guys in like maybe 4-5 months or whenever summer decides to come. im going to make chloroform like everyone else does (if you dont know it easily found on youtube) and then try to make the CCl4