Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Separation question

Kamite - 21-12-2019 at 08:43

Hello:

I have a solution of Cu(NO3)2 + Zn(NO3)2 + Co(NO3)2 + Sc(NO3)2 + Mn(NO3)2.

Any way to purify it to get the pure metals in any form?

[Edited on 21-12-2019 by Kamite]

unionised - 21-12-2019 at 08:47

Quote: Originally posted by Kamite  

I have a solution of Cu(NO3)2 + Zn(NO3)2 + Co(NO3)2 + Sc(NO3)2 + Mn(NO3)2.
[Edited on 21-12-2019 by Kamite]

No, you do not.
How did you come to the conclusion that you had?
Where did you get it?

Kamite - 21-12-2019 at 08:57

Ok. Thank you, Unionised.

The question was to get the comments of an expert.

unionised - 21-12-2019 at 10:36

Well, I spent long enough at university studying chemistry, and even longer doing chemistry as my job that many people might think I am an expert.

In particular, I have the expertise required to recognise that Sc(NO3)2 doesn't exist.

So, once again...
No, you do not.
How did you come to the conclusion that you had?
Where did you get it?

DraconicAcid - 21-12-2019 at 12:19

If you actually had such a solution, separating the various metals from each other is the basis of standard first-year lab assignments. It's been a standard lab assignment since they first added a lab component to first year chemistry courses.

http://file.akfarmahadhika.ac.id/E-BOOK/12-1213-akfarmahad-1...

Vogel wrote a full textbook on it. Chapter 5 goes through the steps for separating all the possible cations into groups, and then separating them out from each other, taking advantage of the different complex ions they form, and the different solubilities of their various salts.

fusso - 21-12-2019 at 21:12

Can open the pdf, but cant see anything except the covers. Why is it blank?

[Edited on 191222 by fusso]

DraconicAcid - 21-12-2019 at 21:40

Quote: Originally posted by fusso  
Can open the pdf, but cant see anything except the covers. Why is it blank?

[Edited on 191222 by fusso]


That's weird. I can read the whole thing.

Sulaiman - 21-12-2019 at 21:56

Quote: Originally posted by DraconicAcid  
Quote: Originally posted by fusso  
Can open the pdf, but cant see anything except the covers. Why is it blank?

[Edited on 191222 by fusso]


That's weird. I can read the whole thing.

I also had no problem, Adobe/Chrome/Win10

fusso - 21-12-2019 at 22:10

Im using firefox default pdf reader.

wg48temp9 - 22-12-2019 at 01:00

Quote: Originally posted by fusso  
Im using firefox default pdf reader.


It does not open for me and I get a message the site can not be reached with a suggestion of opening a stored version on google which does open with very small font that is not readable.

I am using chrome on win7. Yes my PC is old almost as old as my previous PC but I can run my old software on it.

At least when my tumble dryer got old I was offered a new one to stop the old one burning the house down. Why is it software manufactures get to effectively decommission something I bought from them ??? (a rhetorical question)

PS: I wish everyone a great and happy Christmas or what/who ever you celebrate at this time of the year.

I will be away shortly to have some uric acid (probably) nodules zapped by a pulsed laser. Apparently I have accumulated several of them in two places were its not a good idea to have nodules. Unfortunately access for the leaser (remind me to thank the guy that invented fibre optics) and basket, they use to remove the broken up nodules, is small and not usually used as an entrance for anything. If the general randomness of life the universe and everything and the NHS are nice to me I will be back here to finish my spree of posting more colourful graphs in a few days. I know your all looking forward to them LOL

Apparently after the procedure, urinating will be eye wateringly painful for a day or two but no more so than passing a nodule. Just the thought has brought tears to my eyes.


[Edited on 12/22/2019 by wg48temp9]

B(a)P - 22-12-2019 at 02:21

Works fine on my phone. Pixel with Android 10.

unionised - 22-12-2019 at 02:49

Still waiting for the OP to explain
Sc(NO3)2
I'm not holding my breath.

XeonTheMGPony - 22-12-2019 at 05:34

Quote: Originally posted by fusso  
Im using firefox default pdf reader.


It sucks lab scum, get adobe pdf reader.

Downloaded perfectly and readable with out issue.

[Edited on 22-12-2019 by XeonTheMGPony]

fusso - 22-12-2019 at 05:46

Nevermind, I just installed Foxit reader.

DraconicAcid - 22-12-2019 at 19:58

Well, coming up with a separation scheme may be fun. And it's probably been too long for the OP to use it as an answer to his homework question.

First, add excess sodium hydroxide. Zinc and scandium (presumably +3) form complex ions and stay in solution; the others precipitate as hydroxides.

Adding enough ammonium nitrate to the solution to buffer it around 8.5 will keep the zinc in solution as the ammonia complex, scandium will precipitate out as the hydroxide (I think).

To the first precipitate, add concentrated ammonia. The copper and cobalt will dissolve as ammine complexes; the manganese will stay precipitated as the hydroxide (possibly having oxidized to Mn(III) hydroxide or MnO2, depending on how much air is in contact with the solution.

To separate copper from cobalt, boil off most of the ammonia, and then acidify with acetic acid. Treat with sodium anthranilate- the copper compound will precipitate at relatively low pH, whereas the cobalt compound is still soluble until the pH is raised significantly.

Kamite - 23-12-2019 at 00:34

Quote: Originally posted by DraconicAcid  
If you actually had such a solution, separating the various metals from each other is the basis of standard first-year lab assignments. It's been a standard lab assignment since they first added a lab component to first year chemistry courses.

http://file.akfarmahadhika.ac.id/E-BOOK/12-1213-akfarmahad-1...

Vogel wrote a full textbook on it. Chapter 5 goes through the steps for separating all the possible cations into groups, and then separating them out from each other, taking advantage of the different complex ions they form, and the different solubilities of their various salts.


Thank you very much. This is what I was looking for.

Kamite - 23-12-2019 at 01:10

Quote: Originally posted by DraconicAcid  
Well, coming up with a separation scheme may be fun. And it's probably been too long for the OP to use it as an answer to his homework question.

First, add excess sodium hydroxide. Zinc and scandium (presumably +3) form complex ions and stay in solution; the others precipitate as hydroxides.

Adding enough ammonium nitrate to the solution to buffer it around 8.5 will keep the zinc in solution as the ammonia complex, scandium will precipitate out as the hydroxide (I think).

To the first precipitate, add concentrated ammonia. The copper and cobalt will dissolve as ammine complexes; the manganese will stay precipitated as the hydroxide (possibly having oxidized to Mn(III) hydroxide or MnO2, depending on how much air is in contact with the solution.

To separate copper from cobalt, boil off most of the ammonia, and then acidify with acetic acid. Treat with sodium anthranilate- the copper compound will precipitate at relatively low pH, whereas the cobalt compound is still soluble until the pH is raised significantly.


Thank you again for replying. It seems easy. I am reading Vogel´s procedure.

In fact, in the solution are lanthanides aswell, as cerium, neodymium and gadollinium. The determination was done by XRF spectrometry.

Do you have a quick aswer at hand for the lanthanides?

It is a research just for fun, not a home work.









[Edited on 23-12-2019 by Kamite]

[Edited on 23-12-2019 by Kamite]

Kamite - 23-12-2019 at 01:20

Quote: Originally posted by unionised  
Still waiting for the OP to explain
Sc(NO3)2
I'm not holding my breath.


You are right, it is Sc(NO3)3.

As the determination was done by XRF spectrometry, I did not pay enough attention to this molecule that is a litle different to the others around.