Sciencemadness Discussion Board

just one more question before i start contributing to this forum

Cou - 6-11-2019 at 17:12

Finally, after shitting up this board since 2013, I am finally receiving some organic chemistry glassware. im very excited, i have some ideas in mind. I want to make some cool esters

Do you think it's good to start by following procedures from nile red, nurdrage, chemplayer videos, etc, and the prepublications on this forum? so you can learn lab technique, workups, and eventually be able to try your own projects? i also use those videos to equip a chemistry lab (buy what you need for one project at a time, eventually you have a nice set to do other things with)

the problem with organic lab textbooks is that they do projects with chemicals that you can only get from a chemical supplier, no OTC methodologies.



[Edited on 7-11-2019 by Cou]

vibbzlab - 6-11-2019 at 19:23

Always start with what you are well-versed in.it doesn't matter With what you start. Just do it nice and in a presentable way



[Edit by Texium: removed accidental image post]

[Edited on 11-7-2019 by Texium (zts16)]

CharlieA - 7-11-2019 at 16:43

The most important things to learn from organic laboratory manuals are safety considerations and good laboratory practices. Except for very few videos, I do not see good laboratory practices. Just for one example: never put anything (e.g. spatula, spoon, etc.) into a bottle of a chemical. Pour out approximately what you need and measure out the amount needed from what you have poured out.

Texium - 7-11-2019 at 16:55

Quote: Originally posted by CharlieA  
The most important things to learn from organic laboratory manuals are safety considerations and good laboratory practices. Except for very few videos, I do not see good laboratory practices. Just for one example: never put anything (e.g. spatula, spoon, etc.) into a bottle of a chemical. Pour out approximately what you need and measure out the amount needed from what you have poured out.
Wow, that one is news to me... Besides things that are corrosive towards metal spatulas, I've always put (clean) spatulas directly into bottles, both at home and at work, and I've never seen anyone else (be they student or professor) do it any differently. Frankly, a lot of the rules and "best practices" in lab manuals are rather excessive and neurotic. Differentiating those from the ones that are actually important can be challenging.

vibbzlab - 7-11-2019 at 17:09

I don't think that rule of taking out the substance directly out by pouring is a practical idea. Because we may just take out excess by accident and then go for wasting the rest of unnecessary chemical which was taken out directly.

B(a)P - 7-11-2019 at 18:32

Quote: Originally posted by vibbzlab  
I don't think that rule of taking out the substance directly out by pouring is a practical idea. Because we may just take out excess by accident and then go for wasting the rest of unnecessary chemical which was taken out directly.


It reduces degradation of chemicals sensitve to oxygen, humidity ECT.
It reduces the chance of cross contamination.

[Edited on 8-11-2019 by B(a)P]

XeonTheMGPony - 8-11-2019 at 03:50

best starting practice? Distillation, and purification of OTC compounds.

Build up your lab stock pile that way, research what can be don with what, then figure a way to get max bang out of the dollar.

For example: Nitric acid from Ammonium Nitrate, you will now have 2 compounds that are very use full, Ammonium Sulfate and Nitric Acid

Same goes with making Sodium Acetate from Ethyl Acetate, you get dry Ethyl alcohol

IMO Getting a strong feel for distillation is vital as it is a heavily used procedure and ties in with re-fluxing another very heavily used procedure

Amos - 8-11-2019 at 06:27

Quote: Originally posted by B(a)P  
Quote: Originally posted by vibbzlab  
I don't think that rule of taking out the substance directly out by pouring is a practical idea. Because we may just take out excess by accident and then go for wasting the rest of unnecessary chemical which was taken out directly.


It reduces degradation of chemicals sensitve to oxygen, humidity ECT.
It reduces the chance of cross contamination.

[Edited on 8-11-2019 by B(a)P]


Didn't realize all these home labs were planning on turning out scientific research papers left and right. Pouring something out of a container is something you do when you're in those settings, and every professor will tell you NEVER to return something to the container that you've already poured out, counter to your logic. Its a mighty fine way to get dust and organic residues from your hands back into your stockpile of a chemical. It's also a fantastic way to lose small amounts and thus increase the level of contamination you bring to a space in your home.

Amos - 8-11-2019 at 06:32

Cou, the best advice I can give you is to always start with something on a small scale, especially with more volatile reagents. Get a feel for how something is going to work before getting ambitious with the scale. Large reaction scales are often at the heart of aggressive thermal runaways or injurious lab accidents.

I agree with the distillation advice, especially since if you're going to do organic chemistry you probably want to establish stockpiles of some of your more useful solvents that aren't sold in 100% purity (think isopropyl alcohol, dichloromethane/chloroform, diethyl ether, ethyl acetate, etc). If you're obtaining a sep funnel make sure you know the basics of liquid-liquid extraction, too, such as how to mix the layers and knowing which layer will be the top or bottom.

CharlieA - 8-11-2019 at 14:08

Quote: Originally posted by Amos  
Quote: Originally posted by B(a)P  
Quote: Originally posted by vibbzlab  
I don't think that rule of taking out the substance directly out by pouring is a practical idea. Because we may just take out excess by accident and then go for wasting the rest of unnecessary chemical which was taken out directly.


It reduces degradation of chemicals sensitve to oxygen, humidity ECT.
It reduces the chance of cross contamination.


[Edited on 8-11-2019 by B(a)P]


Didn't realize all these home labs were planning on turning out scientific research papers left and right. Pouring something out of a container is something you do when you're in those settings, and every professor will tell you NEVER to return something to the container that you've already poured out, counter to your logic. Its a mighty fine way to get dust and organic residues from your hands back into your stockpile of a chemical. It's also a fantastic way to lose small amounts and thus increase the level of contamination you bring to a space in your home.


Thanks to those who support me. I was taught over 60 years ago that putting anything into a reagent bottle to remove some of its contents risked contaminating the remaining amount. Yes, some of the chemical will be "wasted", but maintaining the purity of your reagents is of paramount importance.
Maybe home chemists aren't producing technical publications and performing leading-edge research, but how many times on this forum does a post go "what is this? what did I get?" At whatever level you are trying to do sound chemistry with understandable results your first consideration should be the purity of your chemicals. This is most important in analytical chemistry perhaps. But...once you have contaminated one of your reagents, now you have a purification problem...assuming you know the reagent has been contaminated. (Please excuse this long-winded old fart.)

Texium - 8-11-2019 at 16:55

Alright, while I agree that you shouldn't reuse spatulas or put chemicals back in their original containers once they have been removed, not putting a clean spatula into a chemical container (unless it's something that could react with the spatula, as I mentioned earlier) frankly seems absurd to me. And to be clear, I have been professionally trained, and I've been working on organic syntheses in a research lab for three years now. If your spatulas aren't clean enough to use to take chemicals directly out of the container, you clearly have some larger issues with improperly cleaned equipment on your hands. Purity of reagents is of utmost importance, but sticking a clean metal spatula in your reagent jars isn't going to ruin anything—and I have plenty of NMR data as evidence to back that up.

Cou - 8-11-2019 at 17:24

I'm following videos from channels like nile red, nurdrage, chemplayer, etc, to learn lab technique and build up a collection of equipment

arkoma - 8-11-2019 at 18:19

methanol + salicylic acid + few drops H2SO4 + reflux>>>>cool ester.


*edit* not being a smart ass. methyl salicylate smells good, and the reaction works well.

*edit* I keep a supply of plastic spoons JUST FOR dipping in chem bottles. Single use.

[Edited on 11-9-2019 by arkoma]

[Edited on 11-9-2019 by arkoma]

arkoma - 8-11-2019 at 18:27

Quote: Originally posted by Cou  
Finally, after shitting up this board since 2013,
[Edited on 7-11-2019 by Cou]


LOL youngster. Trollish ways forgiven.