Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Faculty chemical storage christmas cleaning

bahamuth - 13-12-2010 at 11:26

Hi.

Anyone know if there is any use for, except the niche applications I found goggling, for Titanium(III)chloride (TiCl3) in hydrochloric acid.

Reason I ask is that our faculty had Christmas cleaning in the chemical storage, disposing of non used chemicals, and I took what I deemed useful, the TiCl3 is just one among 50-70 different chemicals I got from there.

Planning to sell some of them if anyone shows interest, but have not had the time to set up a list.

Also one unopened bottle of Tri-N-butyltinchloride (CAS: 1461-22-9 ). Any suggestions on use? Might I convert it to the hydride?



Edit:

Not my intention to make a "trade" list, as it mainly isn't, but might get rid of some of them.

PS. Just a part of the list...

Lithiumaluminumhydride ~ 10g
Malic acid ~ 20 g
Valeric acid ~ 450 mL
Propionic acid ~ 450 + 800 + 500 mL
Oleic acid ~ 500 mL
Lanolin ~ 800 g
Perchloric acid 70% ~ 800 mL
Quinhydrone ~250 g
2,4- dichlorophenol ~ 400 g
Benzyl alcohol ~ 500 mL
Manganese(II)carbonate * XH2O ~ 200 g
Stearic acid ~
Aluminum sulfate * 18 H2O ~
Ammonium chloride ~ 2000 g
Potassium iodide ~ 150 g
Salicylic acid ~ 500 g
Potassium disulfite ~ 500 g
Lead shot ~ 2000 g
Lithium chloride ~ 20 g
Urea ~ 100 g
Glycine ~ 200 g
Manganese(II)chloride * 4H2O ~ 50 g
Cobolt(II)chloride * 6H2O ~ 50 g
Potassium bromide ~ 80 g
Potassium iodate ~ 600 g
18-Crown-6 ~ 2.5 g
N-(1-Naphthyl) Ethylenediamine Dihydrochloride – 25 g
Potassium chromate ~ 200 g
Cetyl alcohol ~ 60 g
Ammonium iron(II) sulfate ~ 800 g
Sodium oxalate ~ 800 g
Manganese(IV)oxide ~1000 g
Potassium sulfate ~
Magnesium sulfate ~
sodium hydrogentartrate * 1H2O ~ 2000 g
Sodium metal ~ 1500 g
Potassium metal ~ 500 g
Nitric acid 68% ~ 6000 mL
Phosphoric acid 85% 2000 mL
Thionyl chloride - 1000 mL
Sodiumborohydride - 1000 g
Ethylene glycol ~ 800 mL

PPS. Please come with suggestions with something to do with them.

[Edited on 13-12-2010 by bahamuth]

vulture - 13-12-2010 at 14:47

Suggestions? There are dozens of reactions you can do with that. Keep the TiCl3 for McMurry style couplings.

Watch out with organotin compounds, nasty stuff.

bahamuth - 13-12-2010 at 15:00

Thanks for the tip, looks like something I'll have to try when I get a lab up and running, as I do not have a fume hood ATM, so I am limited to research and writing proposed syntheses.

Appreciate all inputs as I am here to learn and have fun.

Jor - 13-12-2010 at 15:04

Kalf a Kg of K-metal? 1,5 Kg Na-metal? 1L of thionyl chloride? 1Kg sodium borohydride? 800mL 70% HClO4? Man you are so lucky (although the storage of these is quite nasty)!
Did they just give chemicals like thionyl chloride, alkali metals and perchloric acid to random students? I can't imagine this ever happening here.

vulture - 13-12-2010 at 15:19

Like Jor says, think about storage.

Perchloric acid spill on sodium metal would be...well..ouch

Jor - 13-12-2010 at 15:27

Well i think that is not the worst that could happen, I don't expect the reaction HClO4 with Na to be much more vigorous than that of Na and H2O, HClO4 is not oxidising at all (below azeotropic concentration) at low temperatures (at least up to 80-100C maybe even higher).

Still I am very scared of perchloric acid, because with organic compounds containing OH-groups , perchloric esters are formed wich are highly flammable or explosive. Spilling a large amount of perchloric acid on wood will create a seriously dangerous situation! Because I have a wooden fume hood and wooden work surface (although bot coated with some plastic) I decided to stay away from HClO4 and never use it at home.

[Edited on 13-12-2010 by Jor]

bahamuth - 13-12-2010 at 16:18

To clarify.

I am not a student, I am a laboratory tech by schooling. Also I was the one given the task of properly disposing of the chemicals, and thought it too bad a waste to let them go.

I do not like the idea of perchloric acid either but as it is such a rare chemical.... The perchloric acid is bottled in "safe-break" bottles of 250 mL size to avoid catastrophe, will pack them in additional vermiculite in PP boxes, once I get my ass to the store..


Are actually having a hard time figuring out where to store all of it... and safely that is..

BTW, I am actually more afraid of the old old potassium metal, which is totally black, but could not spot any white, yellow or red oxides...

Magpie - 13-12-2010 at 17:26

That is a real treasure trove you have been offered. My first thought was: take it all. Someday you'll learn to use all these chemicals and then will realize your good fortune.

Now, to figuring out how to store them. I have a half-baked idea for how to store highly reactive or volatile chemicals that you don't want to store in your house: In your backyard (presuming you have one) dig a suitably sized pit about 0.75-1 meter deep. Place a large high quality ice chest (or several small ice chests) in that pit so that their top(s) are about 0.3 meter below grade. Cover the tops with sod, bricks, or other suitable insulation/camoflage. This should be good for year-round storage as ground temperature stays fairly close to 60F (16C). In effect, build a root cellar like your ancestors did.

bahamuth - 13-12-2010 at 22:36

Also wanted to take it all, but considered since some stuff was really nasty, and I planning a long life. E.g. threw away 250 g Mercury(II)sulfate as I did not forsee a use for it in the next couple of years..

Where I live now I do not have the opportunity to dig myself a "ancestral tempered box".
Planning to buy a used freight container and build a lab in that, but won`t be until summer...

PS. I live in northern Norway, the ground freeze up in the winter ranging from 0.2 - 1 meter below ground, so no frost less storage there:P

Magpie - 14-12-2010 at 09:07

Quote: Originally posted by bahamuth  
Also wanted to take it all, but considered since some stuff was really nasty, and I planning a long life. E.g. threw away 250 g Mercury(II)sulfate as I did not forsee a use for it in the next couple of years..

A soluble mercury compound will be useful for converting to acetate or chloride, if required. These are useful catalysts for organic syntheses, eg, making stereospecific alcohols from alkenes.

Quote: Originally posted by bahamuth  

PS. I live in northern Norway, the ground freeze up in the winter ranging from 0.2 - 1 meter below ground, so no frost less storage there:P


Go deeper!:P When I lived in Minnesota the frost line was at 1.3m. Now I live in a better place with the frost line ~0.5m. :D

Magpie - 14-12-2010 at 18:26

Quote: Originally posted by bahamuth  
Hi.
Reason I ask is that our faculty had Christmas cleaning in the chemical storage, disposing of non used chemicals, and I took what I deemed useful, the TiCl3 is just one among 50-70 different chemicals I got from there.

PS. Just a part of the list...

Lithiumaluminumhydride ~ 10g
Malic acid ~ 20 g
Valeric acid ~ 450 mL
Propionic acid ~ 450 + 800 + 500 mL
Oleic acid ~ 500 mL
Lanolin ~ 800 g
Perchloric acid 70% ~ 800 mL
Quinhydrone ~250 g
2,4- dichlorophenol ~ 400 g
Benzyl alcohol ~ 500 mL
Manganese(II)carbonate * XH2O ~ 200 g
Stearic acid ~
Aluminum sulfate * 18 H2O ~
Ammonium chloride ~ 2000 g
Potassium iodide ~ 150 g
Salicylic acid ~ 500 g
Potassium disulfite ~ 500 g
Lead shot ~ 2000 g
Lithium chloride ~ 20 g
Urea ~ 100 g
Glycine ~ 200 g
Manganese(II)chloride * 4H2O ~ 50 g
Cobolt(II)chloride * 6H2O ~ 50 g
Potassium bromide ~ 80 g
Potassium iodate ~ 600 g
18-Crown-6 ~ 2.5 g
N-(1-Naphthyl) Ethylenediamine Dihydrochloride – 25 g
Potassium chromate ~ 200 g
Cetyl alcohol ~ 60 g
Ammonium iron(II) sulfate ~ 800 g
Sodium oxalate ~ 800 g
Manganese(IV)oxide ~1000 g
Potassium sulfate ~
Magnesium sulfate ~
sodium hydrogentartrate * 1H2O ~ 2000 g
Sodium metal ~ 1500 g
Potassium metal ~ 500 g
Nitric acid 68% ~ 6000 mL
Phosphoric acid 85% 2000 mL
Thionyl chloride - 1000 mL
Sodiumborohydride - 1000 g
Ethylene glycol ~ 800 mL
[Edited on 13-12-2010 by bahamuth]


Bahamuth, I just can't believe what your faculty is doing. For example, why would they get rid of 6L of 68% nitric acid? This will be used in every chemistry class from freshman general chemistry to organic to the grad programs. Is your chemistry department disbanding or are the health and safety bureaucrats running amok? Same goes for the phosphoric acid. Some of those are real jewels like the thionyl chloride and sodium borohydride. Not to mention the Na and K.

watson.fawkes - 14-12-2010 at 20:13

Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
For example, why would they get rid of 6L of 68% nitric acid?
Someone must have told them it forms Dangerous Peroxides.

starch - 14-12-2010 at 20:27

WOW WOW WOW

nice haul :D

you be having loads of fun in the future :)
nice quantaties of each 2

oooooo you can feel the envy in this thread rofl


have fun

undead_alchemist - 14-12-2010 at 21:00

Quote: Originally posted by watson.fawkes  
Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
For example, why would they get rid of 6L of 68% nitric acid?
Someone must have told them it forms Dangerous Peroxides.


BHT is your friend. common stabilizer found in things like ether and THF.

Arthur Dent - 15-12-2010 at 05:48

Sweet haul! Never been so lucky to get my hands on such an impressive selection of chemicals, although one of my chemists friend does from time to time bring me some "surplus" glassware from the lab where he works. That's how I landed with a nearly brand new pyrex graham condenser.

But your fear of some of the chemicals is justified. Keep the stuff that can be stored safely and get rid of the really hazardous stuff. A home lab is not the same thing as a fully equipped professional laboratory, and certain risky experiments and unsafe syntheses should simply be not attempted in a garage or a basement.

But the metallic Na and K, that's friggin' awesome! :o :D
Gather a bunch of friends and buy some steak, chicken wings, beer, a barbecue and 1.5 kg Na... all the ingredients to a sodium party!!! LOL

Robert

bahamuth - 15-12-2010 at 11:12

The reason these chemicals had to go was/is the stict rules that WILL be set into motion in a couple of years; "REACH" it is called, where we will have to justify the use and storage of all the chemicals we have/buy.

Also, some of them are 25 years + and not used more than once, and never will be again since Norwegians are lazy (not preparing reagents/chemicals ourself) and "afraid" of chemicals, everything that can be bought in kits are nowadays.

Also, nowadays at the faculty it is more genomics based, and not or very little organic based, even the organic courses are scraped thin.

Plus, I was in the "committee" that decided that they had to go, so I "pushed on" to get rid of them while I still have a job there since my contract is over soon...

Have an updated but not complete list:

Lithiumaluminumhydride ~ 10g
Malic acid ~ 20 g
Valeric acid ~ 450 mL
Propionic acid ~ 450 + 800 + 500 mL
Oleic acid ~ 500 mL
Lanolin ~ 800 g
Perchloric acid 70% ~ 800 mL
Quinhydrone ~250 g
2,4- dichlorophenol ~ 400 g
Benzyl alcohol ~ 500 mL
Manganese(II)carbonate * XH2O ~ 200 g
Stearic acid ~
Aluminum sulfate * 18 H2O ~
Ammonium chloride ~ 2000 g
Potassium iodide ~ 150 g
Salicylic acid ~ 500 g
Potassium disulfite ~ 500 g
Lead shot ~ 2000 g
Lithium chloride ~ 20 g
Urea ~ 100 g
Glycine ~ 200 g
Manganese(II)chloride * 4H2O ~ 50 g
Cobolt(II)chloride * 6H2O ~ 50 g
Potassium bromide ~ 80 g
Potassium iodate ~ 600 g
18-Crown-6 ~ 2.5 g
N-(1-Naphthyl) Ethylenediamine Dihydrochloride – 25 g
Potassium chromate ~ 200 g
Cetyl alcohol ~ 60 g
Ammonium iron(II) sulfate ~ 800 g
Sodium oxalate ~ 800 g
Manganese(IV)oxide ~1000 g
Potassium sulfate ~
Magnesium sulfate ~
sodium hydrogentartrate * 1H2O ~ 2000 g
Sodium metal ~ 1500 g
Potassium metal ~ 500 g
Nitric acid 68% ~ 6000 mL
Phosphoric acid 85% 2000 mL
Thionyl chloride - 1000 mL
Sodiumborohydride - 1000 g
Ethylene glycol ~ 800 mL
1,2-dichlorobenzene ~
4-chloroaniline ~ 200 g
4-nitroaniline ~ 300 g
2-naphtol ~
4-toluidine ~ 200 g
3-nitroaniline ~ 100 g
3-toluidine ~ 100
Iodoethane ~ 300 mL
1-napthol ~ 200 g
4-anisidine ~ 200 g
1,3-diaminobenzene ~ 100 g
4-nitrophenol ~ 100 g
Imidazol ~ 500 g
Camphor ~ 100 g
Aniline ~ 100 g
3-anisidine ~ 100 g
1,4-dichlorobenzene ~
N,N-dimethylaniline ~
4-bromophenacyl bromide ~
3,5-dichlorophenol ~
Propanal ~
Resorcinol ~ 200 g
3,3-dithio-dipropionic acid ~
Tetraphenacylcyclopentadienone ~
1,6-diaminohexan ~

With those in red are the updated ones, a lot of dye chemicals there from an discontinued course.

PS. Have not decided on which chemicals that have to go, plus some I have a lot of, so please ask if you are in need.

Magpie - 15-12-2010 at 13:03

Quote: Originally posted by bahamuth  

Also, some of them are 25 years + and not used more than once, and never will be again since Norwegians are lazy (not preparing reagents/chemicals ourself) and "afraid" of chemicals, everything that can be bought in kits are nowadays.


Maybe the Norwegians will feel more comfortable just making cheese. (I love Jarlsberg "swiss.")

Quote: Originally posted by bahamuth  

Also, nowadays at the faculty it is more genomics based, and not or very little organic based, even the organic courses are scraped thin.


I think that is very short sighted. My limited study of biochemistry revealed that it is solidly based on the mechanisms of organic chemistry.