What can I say? Everything ties to something else. IIt's been burning in my mind so I had to see if the ammonium cation would saponify olive oil.
It seems to separate a little too fast- I may need to blend it several times to get it to stay.
I also got double use from some KOH- I used it in the desiccator first, then made soap from it.bbartlog - 1-11-2010 at 03:46
If you actually want the ammonium carboxylate I think you might do better to first saponify using a stronger and less volatile base (like KOH), then
use NH4Cl to create the ammonium compound via metathesis. The carbonate bases K2CO3 and Na2CO3 take quite a while to saponify fats even at boiling
temperatures and I don't imagine NH4OH is going to react any quicker.
But it sounds like maybe you were just curious whether it was possible...The WiZard is In - 1-11-2010 at 07:31
What can I say? Everything ties to something else. IIt's been burning in my mind so I had to see if the ammonium cation would saponify olive oil.
It seems to separate a little too fast- I may need to blend it several times to get it to stay..
The Analogue guy yet again. Pluck off the shelf —
IVS Stanislaus & PB Meerbott
American Soap Maker's Guide
Henry Carey Baird & Co. 1938
Ammonia soap was first proposed 1859. La book provides
"a more detailed description of the ammonia soap process..."
Will it work w/ olive oil....?
Da book cannot be access via Google.com/books, however,
there do be others that can.
djh
---
There is no higher or lower
knowledge, but one only,
flowing out of experimentation.
Leo D.not_important - 1-11-2010 at 13:34
Ammonia soaps were produced in the past, as I recall more as a path to the free fatty acids by removing (and recovering) the ammonia by blowing steam
through the soap solution. Direct saponification replaced that method. The type of vegetable oil isn't critical except when you care about which
fatty acids are in the result.
ldanielrosa - 2-11-2010 at 00:35
I see. So it probably won't be a stable soap. Still, I'm having fun trying. I'll keep ya posted.ScienceSquirrel - 2-11-2010 at 06:23
A very potent soap could be a tetra alkyl ammonium carboxylate like tetra methyl ammonium stearate.
The tetra alkyl ammonium hydroxides are potent bases at least as strong as sodium or potassium hydroxide and not volatile like ammonia so they would
form stable soaps.
Unfortunately it would probably be poisonous!
-----
This on la hard drive is probably from The Lancet.
HEALTH HAZARD FROM MERCURY SOAP
SIR,--Pregnant women and the developing fetus may acquire
mercury (1) through occupational exposure or ingestion of
contaminated fish or grain by the mother, mercuric ions being
readily absorbed through the gastrointestinal tract, although
normally metallic mercury is not. After birth mercury vapour, (2)
and to a lesser extent inhaled aerosols of mercuric salts, are
readily absorbed by the lungs; in contrast, although mercury
can be absorbed through the skin, this is usually too slow a
process to be of much importance except in unusual
circumstances. Most commercially available gammaglobulin
preparations (but not the Sandoz product) contained
merthiolate (3) (sodium ethylmercurithiosalicylate), used as a
bacteriostatic agent, at least until 1980.
Since I wrote describing a case of mercury intoxication (4) in a
baby with eczema who was being treated with topical 1%
ammoniated mercury, a further source of topical mercury
poisoning has come to light. (5) Mercuric iodide soap,
especially the Roberts brand of medicated soap, is still widely
available within the European Community in cities with
substantial black populations, who use it to lighten their skin,
and in its main African markets such as Nigeria. Its sale was
banned within the EEC in 1976. The risk of toxic effects is
increased by the practice, advised in the instructions supplied
with the soap, of leaving the lather on the skin, commonly all
night.
Paediatric Department,
StMary's Hospital,
Neport,
IsIe of Wight P030 5TG
E. S. MUCKLOW
1. Koos BJ, Longo LD. Mercury toxicity in the pregnant women,
fetus and newborn infant: a review. Am J Obstc Gyneol
1976; 126: 390-409.
2. Moutinho ME, Tompkins AL, RowIand TW, Bason BB,
Jackson AH. Acute mercury vapor poisoning: fatality in an
infant. Am J Dis Child 198 1; 135: 42-44.
3. Matheson DS, Clarkson W, Gelfand EW. Mercury toxicity
(acrodynia) induced by long-term injection of gammaglobulm.
J Pediatr 1980; 97:153-55.
4. Mucklow ES. Mercury as a health hazard. Arch Dis Child
1988; 63:1416-17.
5. Murdoch A. Mercury health risk in soap used to lighten skin.
Independent Dec 29, 1988:5.
djh
----
Most good woman are hidden
treasures who are only safe
because nobody looks for them.
Dorothy Parker ldanielrosa - 5-11-2010 at 02:37
Okay, it doesn't seem to go to completion. I have a slight excess of olive oil (AKA 5% superfat), and I keep getting an aqueous layer on bottom.
I got _really_ stupid yesterday and took a whiff. BAM! I tried to inhale through my ears and every other orifice I could think of to blow the
burning stench out of my nose. Instant headache.
A Maniacial Soap
mothmyth - 6-4-2013 at 19:07
I believe that the easier and more certain way of obtaining amonia soap would be to saponify with NaOH, and then separate the sodium soap, acidify to
convert soap to fatty acids and then resaponify the fatty acids with amonia.
