Sciencemadness Discussion Board

nitration of hexamine with h2so4/kno3

prometheus1970 - 29-10-2010 at 18:12

I know you can nitrate hexamine with hcl/nh4no3, but will the process be successful using H2SO4/KNo3? Will the result be hexamine dinitrate? I've read that hdn (hexamine dintrate is rather weak and needs a cap and booster to detonate) is it worth all the trouble? I'm particularly interested in hexamine -based compounds because I bough a pound of it to make HMTD, but have since decided that organic peroxides, although easy to synth are less than desirable for a multitude of other, well-known reasons(especially hmtd as metal hating as it is) I'm looking for something interesting, but not too overly complicated to do with the hexamine. I thank you for your thoughts...

arsphenamine - 29-10-2010 at 21:01

(sigh)

Bachmann & Sheehan, JACS 71: 1842–1845

By temperature control, you can push the equilibrium more or less toward octogen or hexogen production.

So close to Hallo'ween, I think there's nothing quite like a bubbling vat of
ammonium acetate, acetic anhydride, HMTA, and conc. nitric acid.

mnick12 - 29-10-2010 at 21:40

The nitration of Hexamine generally requires fuming HNO3 and acetic anhydride, mixed acids will not work as H2SO4 decomposes hexamine into formaldehyde and some tar like substance. Mixing hexamine with HNO3 and H2SO4 is a great way to demonstrate a run away, all while spewing nitrogen oxides and formaldehyde gas.

prometheus1970 - 30-10-2010 at 05:36

Thanks abunch!! That clears that up! On to other more understood pursuits (etn, nitrocellulose)

hissingnoise - 30-10-2010 at 05:58

The direct nitrolysis of hexamine by >90% HNO3 gives RDX on drowning . . .
Expect somewhat lower yields than with processes using Ac2O!


prometheus1970 - 30-10-2010 at 18:22

I''ve been trying to avoid the issue of acquiring ac2o, but I know how frustrating low yields can be, so I guess I'll just bit the bullet. Thanks!

hissingnoise - 31-10-2010 at 07:02

Quote: Originally posted by arsphenamine  
(sigh)
Bachmann & Sheehan, JACS 71: 1842–1845

Back then Sobrero hadn't quite had his "eureka moment" . . .

You don't need Ac2O - just concentrate your HNO3!
And yields aren't frustratingly low by any means - direct nitrolysis was the only viable route to RDX until the mid-1940s.