Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Hydrogen peroxide from ozone and water?

nagyepf - 23-2-2019 at 05:02

I have made a high voltage generator.The discharge can produce so much ozone that there is a very stonng smell after only 5 seconds of operation.
I was wondering if it is possible to make H2O2 from O3 and H2O.
What are your rhoughts about it?Unfortunatly I can only find 3% H2O2 and its quite expensive.Even my chemistry teacher doesnt know where it is available in higher concentrations for cheap.

Ubya - 23-2-2019 at 07:53

Quote:
H2O + O3 → H2O2 + O2

has a negative Gibbs energy of -46.5 kJ/mol, so theoretically, this reaction should occur but, the decomposition of O3 to O2 by the reaction,

2 O3 → 3 O2

has a Gibbs energy of -326.4 kJ/mol so the decomposition of ozone is favored over the formation of hydrogen peroxide. As a consequence, I would say no, ozone is not likely to react with water to form hydrogen peroxide. The ozone will decompose to form oxygen instead.

hissingnoise - 23-2-2019 at 09:00

H2O2, though not cheap, is far cheaper than ozone ─ it's available in health shops, oddly enough at 35% conc..

nagyepf - 24-2-2019 at 02:55

Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  
H2O2, though not cheap, is far cheaper than ozone ─ it's available in health shops, oddly enough at 35% conc..


Nobody needs to buy ozone.Just get a gigh voltage generator or a UV C lamp,like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjKkgkbRSgY

DavidJR - 24-2-2019 at 03:28

I doubt this will work. If it was that simple then wouldn't this method have been used industrially? Instead the far more complicated anthraquinone process is used.

hissingnoise - 24-2-2019 at 05:13

Quote: Originally posted by nagyepf  

[/rquote]
Nobody needs to buy ozone.Just get a gigh voltage generator or a UV C lamp,like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjKkgkbRSgY

The half-life of ozone at NTP is about 30 minutes, so it cannot be bought or supplied, period...

Its smell is such that it's readily detected at PPB in air and this often fools k3wls into thinking their apparatus is producing ozone at a high rate, when in reality, only little more than trace amounts are being formed.

It is so easily detected by smell that its given name is from the Greek word for smell.

Its cost of production is so high that intense effort to raise the efficiency of the reaction have been ongoing since Van Marum's day...


unionised - 24-2-2019 at 06:17

Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  


Its cost of production is so high that intense effort to raise the efficiency of the reaction have been ongoing since Van Marum's day...



And those efforts have worked.
Large scale ozone production now costs about a dollar per pound.

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Example-ozone-production...

I'd not expect a "home brew" system to be so efficient.
However a commercial small generator like this
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ET-200-Aquarium-Ozone-Generator-2...

might be useful to the home chemist.

How well you can use it to make peroxide is a different question.

hissingnoise - 24-2-2019 at 06:41

Quote: Originally posted by unionised  


How well you can use it to make peroxide is a different question.

Ozone doesn't react with water, to any practical extent, unfortunately.

If it did, ozone would be storable, in a sense...

unionised - 24-2-2019 at 09:07

I'm fairly sure you can photolyse ozone to give essentially a free oxygen atom (and O2) .
And I could be talked into believing a reaction of "O" and H2O to give H2O2

It seems remarkable that Ajkoer hasn't popped up in this thread.

clearly_not_atara - 24-2-2019 at 10:17

Quote: Originally posted by DavidJR  
I doubt this will work. If it was that simple then wouldn't this method have been used industrially? Instead the far more complicated anthraquinone process is used.

One is an ozone production method, the other produces H2O2. Anthraquinone to H2O2 is actually a very efficient method that produces high concentration peroxide, while corona discharge ozone tops out around 10% IIRC.

VSEPR_VOID - 24-2-2019 at 13:35

oi m8, u got a permit fo dat?

morganbw - 24-2-2019 at 15:12

Quote: Originally posted by VSEPR_VOID  
oi m8, u got a permit fo dat?


Damn man, what is it with this shit you are posting.
The entire world which this forum operates in does not know this bullshit slang you are slapping around.

I just wasted too much of my life trying to understanding wtf you were saying.

Stick your kool up your ass, if you wish to say something then just say it.

Herr Haber - 25-2-2019 at 03:57

Quote: Originally posted by unionised  


It seems remarkable that Ajkoer hasn't popped up in this thread.


Vacations maybe ?