Sciencemadness Discussion Board

What all lab equipment would I need for my own at home laboratory?

Eclipsonix - 22-7-2010 at 13:32

Hi everyone,
I was wondering what all equipment / glass would I need to do stuff like i listed below. Any help would be very appreciated


1) add to solution by dropwise
2) stir for hours
3) both stir with dropwise over the course of a time
4) recrystallization with ether
5) removing oil layers
6) wash oil layers with a sodium carbonate solution
7) wash with 40mL of CH2Cl2
8) 100mL of aqueous HCl ( what is aqueous HCl? )
9) make aqueous layer alkaline with a solution of NaOH ( i duno wut this means )
10) extract amine into 2x50mL of CH2Cl2 ( i duno wut this means )
11) evaporate CH2Cl2 under vacuum ( wondering what all is needed for this, i dont wanna miss anything )
12) dissolve resultant oil in anhydrous ether ( i just don't know what anhydrous ether is )
13) bubble HCl gas through the ether to produce hcl
14) recrystallize



... so pretty much i need help from someone with experience on buying everything for my own lab setup
like names of equipment, advice, anything really. the more questions anyone can help me with the better, u dont have to answer everything. thank you so much!!!

[Edited on 22-07-2010 by Eclipsonix]

[Edited on 22-07-2010 by Eclipsonix]

DJF90 - 22-7-2010 at 13:53

I think someone so clueless as yourself should give up or actually take an interest in chemistry. You're blatently trying to cook drugs, and I for one am not going to help you.

Eclipsonix - 22-7-2010 at 13:56

um I'm not trying to make any drugs actually. I'm 20 years old and signing up for fall classes at a community college. I dropped out of school at 7th grade for homeschool and over the past couple months found a strong interest in bio/organic chemistry and pharmacology. I mean i'm sorry but Fuck you wtf

I just don't want to get anything that doesn't go together or whatever since it seems glass and equipment have different specs. I'd be saving up for every item, i'm not rich enough to get the wrong stuff let alone be a drug dealer -_-

[Edited on 22-07-2010 by Eclipsonix]

Picric-A - 22-7-2010 at 13:58

From those steps you want to complete it looks pretty obvious your trying to make meth or some other drug. Read a book.

Eclipsonix - 22-7-2010 at 13:59

i'm sorry but im NOT trying to make any illegal drugs ever in my life

zed - 22-7-2010 at 13:59

You need to take a class or two, after a year or so, things will start to make sense.

In the meantime, you could study some chemical lab workbooks, look things up on wiki, and stay strictly away from things like ether.

Death,disfigurement, and imprisonment, are constantly searching for, and finding............ neophyte chemists.


DJF90 - 22-7-2010 at 14:03

I call bullshit. Theres no way you want those specific steps for anything BUT making drugs. Here's what gives it away:

Quote:

10) extract amine into 2x50mL of CH2Cl2 ( i duno wut this means )
11) evaporate CH2Cl2 under vacuum ( wondering what all is needed for this, i dont wanna miss anything )
12) dissolve resultant oil in anhydrous ether ( i just don't know what anhydrous ether is )
13) bubble HCl gas through the ether to produce hcl
14) recrystallize




Eclipsonix - 22-7-2010 at 14:04

Quote: Originally posted by zed  
You need to take a class or two, after a year or so, things will start to make sense.

In the meantime, you could study some chemical lab workbooks, look things up on wiki, and stay strictly away from things like ether.

Death,disfigurement, and imprisonment, are constantly searching for, and finding............ neophyte chemists.



Thanks, man. So would you know any chemical lab workbooks online? What you've said is exactly what I've been doing. I've tried extracting caffeine from nodoze tablets with some methods on youtube and have done some other miscellaneous experiments , but I want to up the level and get some real equipment. The list above is literally copy and paste from named techniques I see a lot in chemistry in order to make stuff. I'm not ganna kill myself nor make illegal drugs lol

[Edited on 22-07-2010 by Eclipsonix]

DJF90 - 22-7-2010 at 14:09

Quote:

The list above is literally copy and paste from named techniques I see a lot in chemistry in order to make stuff.


What is "stuff"... I suggest you read something from a real textbook, and not illegal drug synthesis from the internet.

Eclipsonix - 22-7-2010 at 14:13

All I was asking for is help. im not trying to make drugs/illegal drugs. I've been trying to teach myself / learn chemistry like other hobbies. but this one would actually be important. Im like half skitso and i feel like in the future Me or one of my family members will end up with Alzheimer's or Dimensia so I want to truly find better ways of treatment and do my own research for mental illnesses. please just trust me

DJF90 - 22-7-2010 at 14:15

So tell us all what this "amine" is that you intend to work with...

zed - 22-7-2010 at 14:19

Visit "Vogel" among others. It's kind of like a chemist's bible. I think the full title is something similar to "Vogels textbook of practical organic chemistry". I think Science Madness offers it on line.

Other than that, read these guys posts...Some are enriched with nifty photographs.

Try the Pre-publication section. Might see interesting things there.


Eclipsonix - 22-7-2010 at 14:24

Quote: Originally posted by DJF90  
So tell us all what this "amine" is that you intend to work with...


if you told me what an amine is perhaps i would say something like im not working with any -_- im not making drugs

zed - 22-7-2010 at 14:25

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=12475

Sorry, I am unable to create a link to Vogel.

Just go to the Science Madness Homepage, and click on the library link. Vogel is there, under the title "Practical Organic Chemistry".

Welcome to Science Madness.



[Edited on 22-7-2010 by zed]

DJF90 - 22-7-2010 at 14:44

Well tell us what syntheses you've read to come up with these steps that you feel are common. Like you said, you copy and pasted, so why not just post the whole preparation.

[Edited on 22-7-2010 by DJF90]

zed - 22-7-2010 at 14:58

Oh, by the way. You are not on trial here, and you are not obligated to answer hostile questions. Consider the source. You know what they say! No-one is more self-righteous, than a reformed whore.

If you have actually done something verbotten, a moderator will tell you.

Welcome to Science Madness.



DJF90 - 22-7-2010 at 15:33

Nice one Zed, I haven't heard anything as funny as that in ages. You can't seriously be accusing me of dabbling in that kind of crap?!

panziandi - 22-7-2010 at 16:33

LMFBAO!

I'm not sure what was funnier:

1) the original question
2) the fact picric-A sided with DJF90
or
3) the hilarious post by Zed

unfortunately... regretfully this looks like another clueless meth cook clogging up the forum with a pointless empty thread. Some college jock trying to make a quick buck.

This is exactly the reason why I rarely utilize this forum anymore and have migrated to a drug + n00b free zone.

The trouble is that he starts the thread off with steps lifted directly from what looks like an amphetamine prep. If he said:

"What size glassware would you recommend for semi-micro scale organic preparations." or "What glassware should I get for a basic all-round organic chemistry kit"

I don't know what you are doing, and I really don't care. But I suggest you go to a toy store and get yourself a basic chemistry set, albeit they are quite shite these days, and get an idea of how to operate safely. Read lots of text books on fundamentals of organic chemsitry, Vogel and Saunders and Mills and Boon have good books. Then after being introduced to it in college then and only then start organic practicals at home! Organic chemistry is far more hazardous than inorganic chemistry at home... since it almost always relies on highly volatile organic solvents! Diethyl ether is incredibly dangerous, and you should certainly not be CONSIDERING using it at this stage!

entropy51 - 22-7-2010 at 18:19

Quote: Originally posted by DJF90  
I think someone so clueless as yourself should give up or actually take an interest in chemistry. You're blatently trying to cook drugs, and I for one am not going to help you.
Oh, I dunno. Sometimes given a little help they will come to the attention of, well you know, and be put out of business. That first ether fire usually brings the fire marshall, and others are sure to follow.

Sedit - 22-7-2010 at 19:01

Quote: Originally posted by Eclipsonix  
Im like half skitso and i feel like in the future Me or one of my family members will end up with Alzheimer's or Dimensia so I want to truly find better ways of treatment and do my own research for mental illnesses. please just trust me


Well even though im more then likely one of the least bias of people to reply here to your post I still think your trying to cook meth or more precisely MDMA thru pseudonitrosite route given the process you speak of.

However if you are sincere about the dementia and alzheimers I am more willing to help because its a sad trait of my family as well and given that im quickly showing simular symptoms they showed early in life I fear the worst for myself as I normally do. I would suggest beginning nootropics such as piracitam right away since this has been shown over decades of research to improve cognition in dementia patiants.

Also if your quest is to find a better cure I suggest you start looking into prion diseases such as mad cow since alzheimers and many other dementias are caused by a messup in one of the base pairs in the DNA coding of these protiens causing them to catalyticaly unfold and form plaques in the brain. There is now a "cure" out there for mad cow disease that flushes these prions from the brain restoring functions if caught early enough.

I know from your opening post everything im saying is more then likely wayyyy over your head but PM me with an intelligent conversation if needed and I will try to guide you in the right direction. By intelligent I mean please do a little research of your own first and I will attempt to fill in any blanks that I can.

GL
~Sedit

zed - 22-7-2010 at 20:08

Everybody has to start somewhere. Saint Christopher wasn't always a saint.

Rumor has it, he was interested in the dark side of the force. Times were tough, and he wanted to sell his soul to El Diablo. Quess his soul wasn't worth much; he couldn't make a deal.

Being a big mean looking giant, he took a job as a ferry man. For some spare change, he would carry folks piggy-back across the shallow local river. One thing led to another, and now he is lauded as being the patron saint of travelers.

Young man professes to be interested in chemistry. Where that interest will take him, no-one can say. A few years from now, he may be wearing surgical scrubs, while he delivers our grandchildren.

Eclipsonix - 22-7-2010 at 20:21

Quote: Originally posted by Sedit  
Quote: Originally posted by Eclipsonix  
Im like half skitso and i feel like in the future Me or one of my family members will end up with Alzheimer's or Dimensia so I want to truly find better ways of treatment and do my own research for mental illnesses. please just trust me


Well even though im more then likely one of the least bias of people to reply here to your post I still think your trying to cook meth or more precisely MDMA thru pseudonitrosite route given the process you speak of.

However if you are sincere about the dementia and alzheimers I am more willing to help because its a sad trait of my family as well and given that im quickly showing simular symptoms they showed early in life I fear the worst for myself as I normally do. I would suggest beginning nootropics such as piracitam right away since this has been shown over decades of research to improve cognition in dementia patiants.

Also if your quest is to find a better cure I suggest you start looking into prion diseases such as mad cow since alzheimers and many other dementias are caused by a messup in one of the base pairs in the DNA coding of these protiens causing them to catalyticaly unfold and form plaques in the brain. There is now a "cure" out there for mad cow disease that flushes these prions from the brain restoring functions if caught early enough.

I know from your opening post everything im saying is more then likely wayyyy over your head but PM me with an intelligent conversation if needed and I will try to guide you in the right direction. By intelligent I mean please do a little research of your own first and I will attempt to fill in any blanks that I can.

GL
~Sedit


Thanks, man. I'm totally into researching the nootropics already. And what you said about all else is a bit over my head until i learn more. I had no clue the causes were already found. .. way to get me started lol

Eclipsonix - 22-7-2010 at 20:24

And thanks a lot Zed, ur the man. Thanks for the welcome!

rrkss - 22-7-2010 at 20:45

I'd reccommend that you take a chemistry class at your local college and learn some lab technique. It will teach you much of the concepts needed to perform your list.

Just at a glance, I see the need of upwards of a thousand dollars in equipment to do what you want to do.

The CH2Cl2 can give you severe dermatitis which takes forever to go away, and the ether can cause an explosion or a fire without warning.

Stay away from ether till you've studied lab safetly in a real lab as that solvent can cost you your life.

Eclipsonix - 22-7-2010 at 21:32

Quote: Originally posted by rrkss  
I'd reccommend that you take a chemistry class at your local college and learn some lab technique. It will teach you much of the concepts needed to perform your list.

Just at a glance, I see the need of upwards of a thousand dollars in equipment to do what you want to do.

The CH2Cl2 can give you severe dermatitis which takes forever to go away, and the ether can cause an explosion or a fire without warning.

Stay away from ether till you've studied lab safetly in a real lab as that solvent can cost you your life.


I'll take the advice. I definitely won't be using ether. I decided to wait till I have more experience to do anything at home. I didn't realize how over my head I was lol

From what I understand, I need a separatory funnel with stopcock, a hotplate/magnetic stirrer (2in1), some Erlenmeyer flasks, regular flasks, beakers, stands, clamps, and im not sure what else

[Edited on 22-07-2010 by Eclipsonix]

entropy51 - 23-7-2010 at 04:16

Quote: Originally posted by Eclipsonix  
All I was asking for is help. im not trying to make drugs/illegal drugs. I've been trying to teach myself / learn chemistry like other hobbies. but this one would actually be important. Im like half skitso and i feel like in the future Me or one of my family members will end up with Alzheimer's or Dimensia so I want to truly find better ways of treatment and do my own research for mental illnesses. please just trust me
Hmmm. Someone who knows not the names of glassware or chemicals (nor how to spell dementia) is going to find treatments? Sedit, please tell me that you don't really believe this.

Sedit - 23-7-2010 at 05:05

Nope not really, but I tend to give people the chance to redeem themselfs. Given that he says dementia runs in the family I guess I could see the mispellings having there place.

My guess is hes around 14-16 years old and has had personal encounters with alzheimers and started to research drugs on the internet only to find the countless drug synthesis all over the place and decided that MDMA would be a good place to start. Which it would be if parkinson's disease was the issue but hes speaking of prion diseases which I don't think parkinsons is associated with in anyway.

Like I said in the first line of my post im almost certine this fellow is attempting to make MDMA because METH recipes rarely call for the use for Dichloromethane and the likes. They call for Et2O most of the time when speaking of meth. Not to mention the dropwise addition is more then likely for H2SO4 into a NaNO2 solution or for the dripping of a certine ketone into alcoholic Al/Hg.


So whatever the case I would suggest the opener of this thread to come completely clean as to the source of the process he wishes to reproduce.

[Edited on 23-7-2010 by Sedit]

rrkss - 23-7-2010 at 05:22

Quote: Originally posted by Sedit  
So whatever the case I would suggest the opener of this thread to come completely clean as to the source of the process he wishes to reproduce.
[Edited on 23-7-2010 by Sedit]


Very well said. I would feel more comfortable helping somebody who plays open cards with me. Right now, I don't want to share more than what I did because this poster obviously does not know anything about chemistry let alone advanced organic synthesis which is what he appears to be doing. Don't want to be the one that gives advice which causes the untrained person to become seriously injured or possibly killed.

Certain anhydrous chemistry can be very dangerous if the reaction gets exposed to moisture or is not kept under control (ie: grignards, LAH reductions, t-butyl lithium...)

turd - 23-7-2010 at 06:42

Quote: Originally posted by Eclipsonix  

I'll take the advice. I definitely won't be using ether. I decided to wait till I have more experience to do anything at home. I didn't realize how over my head I was lol

From what I understand, I need a separatory funnel with stopcock, a hotplate/magnetic stirrer (2in1), some Erlenmeyer flasks, regular flasks, beakers, stands, clamps, and im not sure what else

Welcome Eclipsonix.
First of all read this:
https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=13...
Realize that making MDMA or other psychoactives (not that I am insinuating that you are) is a perfectly fine goal as long as you are interested in the chemistry and not in monetary rewards. What ever your goal is - go ahead and see if you like that hobby, chances are good that you will soon be fed up and do something else, but if you happen to like it, then chemistry is very fulfilling.
The one thing that is frowned upon here is the wish of getting spoon fed. Zed gave you pointers to excellent literature, now read, read, read and show that you can work it out yourself.

In your list a lot of things are missing. Immediately spatulas, spoons, condensers, distillation equipment, chemicals, vacuum sources, pressure equalized addition funnels, Büchner flasks & funnels, gas washing bottles come to mind. Some of these can be improvised but working with real gear is so-much more convenient. Buy something if the need arises and soon you will have a well equipped lab (if you can afford it, that is). Ebay is a great place to acquire cheap glassware and check for local labs closing down.

zed - 23-7-2010 at 13:31

Huh? None of you guys have had a twisted colleague/protege, that became a notorious evil, out-of-control, dangerous criminal, large-scale underground chemist? That ended up making synthetic opiates, hurting lots and lots of people, and then turned informer to save his own skin?

Ah, the joy of it. Really makes you want to go out there, and generously share your knowledge with all that inquire.

Still, things don't usually go that way. Chemistry might be a little like kundalini yoga.
Liberation for the wise, bondage for fools.

Once a guy starts taking classes, anything can happen. His perceived world, becomes larger. Perspective shifts. Goals usually change.


Eclipsonix - 23-7-2010 at 15:05

Sedit, Turd, zed, and everyone who's replied to my thread, thank you for all this advice/insight. I mean I'm really just doing exactly what you said, I'm looking up drug synthesis online trying to find easier ones to try on my own. not mdma, or meth. nothing illegal!! just to be completely honest i looked for a while to find research chemical (psychoactive yes, but im not at all indenting to produce it for money ever or harm to anyone but myself really)
I just wanna experiment in making a legal recreational drug and see if it all works out.
I understand I could kill myself and stuff, but I also could skateboarding or driving a car/ taking anything really.
You guys seem really cool now and ur just asking for honesty so I just wanna be honest with you then. Im really not trying to make meth or mdma. Im just doing a project and would love for it to work out lol
I really do feel passionate about chemistry and the science community more than anything else. I really do have my ultimate goal being to find better treatments for mental disorders and have a job doing research for my future. Everything I said about myself is true, and I started studying chemistry just 5months ago everyday pretty much using chem4kids.com at first, then "Graduating lol" to mark bishops introductory. I'm on chapter 4.

I'm sorry I wasn't up front. I just didn't know


entropy51 - 23-7-2010 at 17:18

Quote: Originally posted by Eclipsonix  
I just wanna experiment in making a legal recreational drug and see if it all works out.

I'm sorry I wasn't up front. I just didn't know
That would be ethanol, caffeine and nicotine. Why would you want to make any of those? All easily available, without gassing ether with HCl or any of the other chemical operations you asked about. And your other thread about buying HBr: that makes a mean martini.

You still aren't upfront. Even worse, you seem to think that we are stupid.

Eclipsonix - 23-7-2010 at 17:27

No seriously man I'll tell you anything, just accept that I'm being honest. And screwwww cigarettes, and alcohol. I said research chemicals like MDAT , http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/research_chems/

I want to make 4methylmethcathinone as my experiment. I just didn't want to tell anybody because people would just disrespect and assume too much. The chemical is known big time for a giant trade from China to the UK and it's recreational use. I just didn't want anyone to think I wanna *mass produce it* and make money, because I don't. I just had tried the substance before and thought it might be something to try and make since i wouldn't be doing anything illegal. please understand.. I mean just dont put me down

heres the synthesis i decided to try instead of the one including ethers. i dont wanna blow myself up



Quote:

(1 of 2)
To a solution of 38mL (250mmol, 37g) 4-methylpropiphenone in 125mL glacial acetic acid was added 1mL 48% HBr followed by, over the course of an hour, 14mL (275mmol, 44g) elemental bromine. The reaction mixture, which changed to a nice pink colour during addition, was stirred for a further 1.5 hours, then slowly poured into 500mL ice-cold water, with swirling after each careful addition. The cream-coloured precipitated product was taken up in 200mL dichloroethane, and the aqueous layer extracted with 100mL dichloroethane. The combined extracts were washed with 2x250mL cold water, then dried over magnesium sulfate. The solvent was removed under vacuum, taking care to keep the temperature below 50oC, leaving a turquoise oil, 2-bromo-(4’-methylphenyl)-propan-1-one, which solidified almost immediately on cooling, into sparkling waxy crystals.

(2 of 2)

To a stirred solution of 11.4g (50mmol) 2-bromo-4’-methylpropiophenone in 25mL toluene held at 20oC was added, over 5 minutes, 6.2g methylamine in 35mL water (prepared by adding a solution of 7.9g (198mmol) sodium hydroxide in 20mL cold water to a cooled solution of 13.5g methylamine HCl in 15mL water). The mixture was allowed to stir for a further 16 hours at 20-25oC, then was poured into 150mL ice-cold water. The toluene layer was separated off, and the remaining freebase extracted with 2x20mL toluene. The combined toluene extracts were washed with 3x25mL water, and then acidified with 2x15mL dilute HCl. The combined acidic extracts then washed twice with 25mL toluene and evaporated under vacuum to dryness, allowing an off-white solid to form. 20mL acetone was added and was heated to boiling, forming a homogenous solution, which was then slowly cooled, allowing crystals to precipitate. The crystals were filtered and rinsed with around 100mL ice cold acetone.

Yield: 4.8g (45%)


[Edited on 22-07-2010 by Eclipsonix]

Eclipsonix - 23-7-2010 at 17:29

and in case you still don't believe me, here's the one including the ether.


Quote:

a-Bromination

To a flask containing 1.0 g of 4-methylpropiophenone (6.7 mmol) in 22 mL of glacial acetic acid was added to 1.1 g of bromine (6.8 mmol) dropwise and stirred for an hour. The reaction mixture was then poured into cold water and the 40-methyl-2-bromopropiophenone oil layer was removed. The oil layer was then washed with a sodium carbonate solution. The 40-methyl-2-bromopropiophenone crystallized out at 0 degrees C and was recrystallized from ether [1].

4-Methylmethcathinone

1.0 g of the 40-methyl-2-bromopropiophenone (4.4 mmol)was dissolved in 30 mL of CH2Cl2 and added dropwise over an hour to a stirred solution of 0.3 g ofmethylamine hydrochloride (4.4 mmol) and 1.0 g of triethylamine (9 mmol) in 50 mL of CH2Cl2. After the addition was complete the mixture was stirred at room temperature for 4 h. 100 mL of aqueous HCl was added and the aqueous layerwas removed andwashedwith 40 mL of CH2Cl2. The aqueous layer wasmade alkaline with a solution of NaOH and the amine was extracted into 2 x 50 mL of CH2Cl2. The CH2Cl2 was evaporated under vacuum and the resultant oil was dissolved in anhydrous ether. HCl gas was bubbled through the ether to produce the 4-methylmethcathinone hydrochloride. The hydrochloride salt was recrystallised from iPrOH. The yield of 4- methylmethcathinone hydrochloride was approximately 30%


killer_lapin - 23-7-2010 at 17:34

bromine
dicloroethane
toluene
...

seriously this is not good for your healt, and all the other chemical you want get...
man this is not for you

zed - 23-7-2010 at 21:12

In the U.S., the material remains marginally legal. Provided you don't sell it. That won't last. As it is, if you manufacture it, and sell it for human use, you could face a long, long, prison sentence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mephedrone

Just looks like speed to me. Cheap dangerous speed. Poorly understood.

Personally, I would recommend against it.

Ooops! There I go again, wasting my breath. Oh, well.


Eclipsonix - 23-7-2010 at 21:16

Quote: Originally posted by entropy51  
Quote: Originally posted by Eclipsonix  
I just wanna experiment in making a legal recreational drug and see if it all works out.

I'm sorry I wasn't up front. I just didn't know
That would be ethanol, caffeine and nicotine. Why would you want to make any of those? All easily available, without gassing ether with HCl or any of the other chemical operations you asked about. And your other thread about buying HBr: that makes a mean martini.

You still aren't upfront. Even worse, you seem to think that we are stupid.


I seriously just wanna try making anything that's in my ability and can follow up with a bio-essay- haha
It's not that bad of an idea to use the idea as a motive to learn as fast as possible.
Within the time of starting this thread to now I have all my questions answered thanks to whom have helped.

Eclipsonix - 23-7-2010 at 21:23

Quote: Originally posted by zed  
In the U.S., the material remains marginally legal. Provided you don't sell it. That won't last. As it is, if you manufacture it, and sell it for human use, you could face a long, long, prison sentence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mephedrone

Just looks like speed to me. Cheap dangerous speed. Poorly understood.

Personally, I would recommend against it.

Ooops! There I go again, wasting my breath. Oh, well.



Yea man don't worry your not wasting your breathe. I appreciate what you've put to my thread so far lol.
Yea the stuff looks like speed, it's definitely chemically similar, however the effects are much shorter in duration. The drug is a lot less potent (200mg oral rather than 30mg) It definitely seems so far to be much less neruotoxic than MDMA and METH but effects being as good if not better. And yea I wouldn't sell it, I mean you can tell already that I would never figure out how to scale anything up. The yield is horrible, the cost is pretty bad, I just; like i said, see it as a project that's doable until now really

entropy51 - 24-7-2010 at 06:03

So we started out as a compassionate lad who just wanted to cure his gradma's Alzheimers:
Quote: Originally posted by Eclipsonix  
All I was asking for is help. im not trying to make drugs/illegal drugs. I've been trying to teach myself / learn chemistry like other hobbies. but this one would actually be important. Im like half skitso and i feel like in the future Me or one of my family members will end up with Alzheimer's or Dimensia so I want to truly find better ways of treatment and do my own research for mental illnesses. please just trust me

But we seem to have gone around the block to being just another tweaker who promises not to sell his stuff:
Quote: Originally posted by Eclipsonix  

Yea the stuff looks like speed, it's definitely chemically similar, however the effects are much shorter in duration. The drug is a lot less potent (200mg oral rather than 30mg) It definitely seems so far to be much less neruotoxic than MDMA and METH but effects being as good if not better. And yea I wouldn't sell it, I mean you can tell already that I would never figure out how to scale anything up. The yield is horrible, the cost is pretty bad, I just; like i said, see it as a project that's doable until now really
You don't seem very trustworthy, to say the least.

turd - 24-7-2010 at 06:42

Quote: Originally posted by Eclipsonix  
It definitely seems so far to be much less neruotoxic than MDMA and METH but effects being as good if not better.

It's none of my (nor anyone else's) business what your target molecule is, so quit being defensive. Who cares what the whiners think? But seriously, mephedrone better than methamphetamine or MDMA? You must be kidding. It's a cheap speed knock-off with the only "advantage" of being somewhat legal and available to the unwashed masses.

Honestly, if I were you, I would go after for example the mescaline, escaline, proscaline, allylscaline class of compounds from syringaldehyde or vanillin. Or the 2C-X class of compounds from hydroquinone. Much more difficult but also much more worthwhile. I haven't checked the legality, so proceed at your own risk.

Or make something new, for example take some inspiration from here: https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=70... . The possibilities are endless and there are better things than mephedrone. But first of all learn the basics. You are not ready to produce chemicals intended for ingestion. Even if it is only yourself.

zed - 24-7-2010 at 12:02

If you approach the problem correctly, the 2C-X class of compounds may actually be easier to make. A lot easier. But, that's another issue.

Over the course of time, most of the chemists in the world (even the BadBoy chemists), have concluded that making speed is a poor idea. MDMA is barely tolerable, and Methamphetamine is way out of bounds.

The destructive effects of such materials have been well known for about forty years.
Having seen the effect that this stuff has on people, it has become a matter of conscience, for most of us, to NOT produce speed. Aside from the long prison terms imposed, it hurts people.

In this era, the major manufacturers and distributors of speed, are folks that don't give a shit. The Mexican Drug Cartels, Outlaw Bikers, and other Organized Crime Types. Now, you can rub shoulders with these folks if you want to, but I'm pretty sure you won't like it.

Making a few grams of this stuff might not be very dangerous. Start making more, and trouble will develop quickly.

Consider your own self preservation first. How are you personally going to do, with an endless supply of potent, addicting drugs at your disposal? You like this stuff! You like it a lot. Bad sign.





[Edited on 24-7-2010 by zed]

[Edited on 24-7-2010 by zed]

[Edited on 24-7-2010 by zed]

[Edited on 24-7-2010 by zed]

turd - 25-7-2010 at 01:35

Quote: Originally posted by zed  
Making a few grams of this stuff might not be very dangerous. Start making more, and trouble will develop quickly.

Consider your own self preservation first. How are you personally going to do, with an endless supply of potent, addicting drugs at your disposal? You like this stuff! You like it a lot. Bad sign.

Who talked about making more than a few 100 mg to a few g? Working on a (semi-)micro scale has the advantage of being able to use methods that are a hassle on larger scales (e.g. Al/Hg, KMnO4). If my peers and I were unemployed, your concern might be justified, but the way it is I plain and simply have no time and no interest in taking speed. I hear in the US it's common to go to work wired, but this is 100% unthinkable for me. (Meth)amphetamine is a nice example of a drug where the media are at least partly responsible for the problem. Paint it as the drug straight out of hell and people will become interested in it.

BTW: Mephedrone has the negative aspects of speed (the cheap rush, the push to redose) but none of the clarity. For me personally a completely unnecessary molecule.

Nicodem - 25-7-2010 at 03:16

Quote: Originally posted by Eclipsonix  
Yea the stuff looks like speed, it's definitely chemically similar, however the effects are much shorter in duration. The drug is a lot less potent (200mg oral rather than 30mg) It definitely seems so far to be much less neruotoxic than MDMA and METH but effects being as good if not better. And yea I wouldn't sell it, I mean you can tell already that I would never figure out how to scale anything up. The yield is horrible, the cost is pretty bad, I just; like i said, see it as a project that's doable until now really

I have nothing against young people becoming interested in chemistry due to drugs, but I do think that any such person needs to do is realize a few basic things:

a.) Chemistry is a science! This means you need to completely change the way you currently think and do a personal cognitive revolution. You need to start using the scientific method for anything you claim, anything you read, anything you interpret and refer to every source you use. (Example: Just because there is no study about the neurotoxicity of mephedrone it does not mean it is less neurotoxic than MDMA or methamphetamine. Learn to differentiate deduction from induction!)

b.) Forget wishful thinking! Just because you have some information about how some compound can be synthesized, it does not mean you actually can synthesize it. Neither is enough to have all the equipment and chemicals required. You also need the skills and the understanding of the process, and these takes training and learning. (Example: You don't even know the terminology used in the procedures, and your wishful thinking got you so overwhelmed that you believe you can proceed regardless of this deficit. Behind those words you don't understand, there are skills and knowledge hidden, of which you know not enough to even comprehend at what level of cluelessness you currently are.)

c.) Realize what you don't even know of not knowing. There are worlds around you that you are not even remotely aware of. (Example: You think mephedrone is a worthy goal? Get serious and give up on naivety! That drug was not sold because being particularly good, it was sold because it is ridiculously cheap to produce and because it is a stimulant, therefore attractive for the ignorant masses. You just happened to be one individual in that mass of naive people that come across that drug.)

I think if you seriously read the replies in this thread, that you should by now understand how to approach your new hobby. You need to learn how to learn, then learn, then practice and then do things - and not the other way around like you insist. First read about the scientific method, then stick to it religiously, then read about basic chemistry, then do some basic experiments... That's the way to open the doors on the way to your goal, and on the way you will find the goal changes to be more rewarding.
And forget about mephedrone and any of the so called "research chemicals". Just because something is legal it does not mean that it is safe. Actually the opposite can commonly be more true, given that illegal drugs at least have been studied and tested by the statistically relevant masses. Remember that drugs are commonly not prohibited according to the health hazard they bring, but according to their appearance on the black market, economic or political reasons, due to their addiction potential, social abuse potential, or nowadays even without any serious argumentation. Actually the medical reasons can be the least relevant. With so many compounds more interesting than mephedrone, it is so immensely stupid to chose it as a target while at the same time trying to convince us that you are here because chemistry is your hobby. Mephedrone is after all just a stimulant.

peach - 26-7-2010 at 01:11

Quote: Originally posted by rrkss  

The CH2Cl2 can give you severe dermatitis which takes forever to go away


And cancer, maybe...

Quote:
It may be carcinogenic, as it has been linked to cancer of the lungs, liver, and pancreas in laboratory animals.[9] Dichloromethane crosses the placenta. Fetal toxicity in women who are exposed to it during pregnancy however has not been proven.[10] In animal experiments it was fetotoxic at doses that were maternally toxic but no teratogenic effects were seen.[9]

In many countries products containing dichloromethane must carry labels warning of its health risks.

In the European Union, the European Parliament voted in 2009 to ban the use of dichloromethane in paint-strippers for consumers and many professionals.[11] (However, dichloromethane-based stripper was still available as of June 2010.)


Although, at the moment, almost everything appears to be a carcinogen until proven otherwise. I'd like to see that on the NFPA704 rating system, a number for the carcinogenic potential.

I don't mind what the specific question is about, and I appreciate the OP is attempting to be discrete, but DJF, that is screaming one thing to me.

What does worry me is what someone would be doing making those kinds of things and needing advice on how to heat / stir something or separate it.

Couple that with subsequent question about gassing something with HCl(g) and compare the levels of skill required.

Again, I don't mind the general discussion of those chemicals. But I prefer to see it come from someone who implies they have some idea what they're doing.

I also agree that, if you want advice on doing that and it's nothing to do with drugs, why not post the entire workup you wish to run, since the substrates may change the advice you're given?

This is a cookalong request.

peach - 27-7-2010 at 03:46

Oh god, I just read what he's after... mephedrone!

I tried some of that whilst it was still legal to buy it in the UK; just before it was made illegal actually, thinking "Ooooo, they won't shut up about this on Radio 4, wonder what it's like"

Utter shit.

I am virtually certainly it deserved a banning. There are waaaay too many odd effects, like intense headaches and subcutaneous bleeding. When I took it, the 'effects' where almost identical to what I felt when I had a migraine that made me throw up within minutes or when I fell off my bike and hit a brick wall with my head, temporarily loosing vision in one eye for a few hours. Both of those, particularly the latter, can be caused by excessive pressure on the brain (osmotic / swelling / blood etc). Compared to mephedrone, they even have similar 'visuals', indicating potentially damaging conditions in the brain tissue; not synaptic level distortions. Add to that the raised blood pressures of mephedrone, intense headaches and strange purple patches or bleeding and you have a fairly good link to a suggestion of how it creates the 'visuals'.

I also ate mountains of magic mushrooms before they became illegal to buy - towards half ounces of them dry in one go, multiples of what most people are okay with. Never had a single problem.

One strong nights worth of mephedrone and months later I'm noticing colour distortions on text at the sides of my vision and wondering if that's some trace of some brain damage it's left me with.

Not worth it at all. Just have a 'mate' smack you over the head with a frying pan. Lots cheaper, lots easier, similar result. It is bin worthy rubbish.

[Edited on 27-7-2010 by peach]

lol - 27-7-2010 at 06:13

Quote:
Quote: Originally posted by Eclipsonix  

From what I understand, I need a separatory funnel with stopcock, a hotplate/magnetic stirrer (2in1), some Erlenmeyer flasks, regular flasks, beakers, stands, clamps, and im not sure what else



dont forget a water aspirator/vacuum pump

[Edited on 27-7-2010 by lol]

[Edited on 27-7-2010 by lol]

[Edited on 27-7-2010 by lol]

Chainhit222 - 27-7-2010 at 06:21

Mephedrone is pretty awesome if you don't redose on it like a fiend, which takes a bit of discipline. I never got the same effects from it as peach. Did you like eat 10 grams of mephedrone over the course of a week? I noticed a weird blury mass in the center of my vision, but it went away in a day or two.

Additionally, there is nothing wrong with methamphetamine so long you don't binge on it. I don't think any drug is bad so long its used in a responsible manner. I think that people develop drug problems once they start using drugs for anything other then recreational fun. I can't speak for the people on wet dreams that smoke meth therapeutically. Treat a drug like a fun ride in a sports car on a free Saturday. And poly drug use is fucking awesome.

[Edited on 27-7-2010 by Chainhit222]

peach - 27-7-2010 at 06:38

Quote: Originally posted by Chainhit222  
Mephedrone is pretty awesome if you don't redose on it like a fiend, which takes a bit of discipline. I never got the same effects from it as peach. Did you like eat 10 grams of mephedrone over the course of a week? I noticed a weird blury mass in the center of my vision, but it went away in a day or two.

[Edited on 27-7-2010 by Chainhit222]


That's what I got as well, and what bothered me about it. I know exactly what tripping looks like with lots of different things, but that isn't right; the fixed, continuous, blurry nature.

Some of the words you use make me think you saw something very similar to me.

The thing I predominantly saw was something permanently fixed to the centre of my field of vision, and it stayed there for a long time. There were colour distortions and neon colours, but again, nothing like synaptical style tripping. The flashing neon, simple colours are not like tripping either, they're like brain trauma.

The pattern looked as if I'd been staring at one of those circus spirally things the joker would use to hyonotize people with. The kind that, when you look away, everything in the central patch seems to continue waving. It's a persistence of vision trick, like staring at the floor for ages as you're walking along, then looking up and the horizon seems to move away as your eyes refocus.

At first I thought, this is interesting and waited for it to get more exciting. 18h later I was thinking... "Fucking hell this is annoying!".

Those effects, as I say I have strong suspicion, are not being caused by synaptic level activity, but by generalized distress.

I would give it some credit in that they only appeared after I took large amount of it. It was in no way addictive for me, I just found it annoying the way it wore off in no time and didn't seem to be doing much that I considered interesting. I thought taking it faster would increase the interesting effects. It didn't, they stayed the same and were vastly outran by the negatives, which became significant and tiresome. When it ran out, I didn't want anymore.

Think I took 2g in about 12 - 18h.

My sense of balance was absolutely wrecked, even a day or two later. During and immediately afterwards, my eyes would drop in out out of focus to a terrible degree and for long durations. Blocks of text would change colour or words and sentences would look like the front colour had been changed, or a highlight colour applied.

The visual distortions are too wide spread and general. That's not what would happen if signals were being distorted at the synapses. The patterns are too simple, it's trauma of some kind. I've experienced genuine brain trauma from impacts and I've tripped a lot, so I can reference the two first hand. Mephedrone belongs with the first.

Suffice it to say, I wouldn't take it again if someone gave it to me for free.

It's up to something nasty.

[Edited on 27-7-2010 by peach]

Chainhit222 - 27-7-2010 at 07:19

Quote: Originally posted by peach  
Quote: Originally posted by Chainhit222  
Mephedrone is pretty awesome if you don't redose on it like a fiend, which takes a bit of discipline. I never got the same effects from it as peach. Did you like eat 10 grams of mephedrone over the course of a week? I noticed a weird blury mass in the center of my vision, but it went away in a day or two.

[Edited on 27-7-2010 by Chainhit222]


That's what I got as well, and what bothered me about it. I know exactly what tripping looks like with lots of different things, but that isn't right; the fixed, continuous, blurry nature.

Some of the words you use make me think you saw something very similar to me.

The thing I predominantly saw was something permanently fixed to the centre of my field of vision, and it stayed there for a long time. There were colour distortions and neon colours, but again, nothing like synaptical style tripping. The flashing neon, simple colours are not like tripping either, they're like brain trauma.

The pattern looked as if I'd been staring at one of those circus spirally things the joker would use to hyonotize people with. The kind that, when you look away, everything in the central patch seems to continue waving. It's a persistence of vision trick, like staring at the floor for ages as you're walking along, then looking up and the horizon seems to move away as your eyes refocus.

At first I thought, this is interesting and waited for it to get more exciting. 18h later I was thinking... "Fucking hell this is annoying!".

Those effects, as I say I have strong suspicion, are not being caused by synaptic level activity, but by generalized distress.

I would give it some credit in that they only appeared after I took large amount of it. It was in no way addictive for me, I just found it annoying the way it wore off in no time and didn't seem to be doing much that I considered interesting. I thought taking it faster would increase the interesting effects. It didn't, they stayed the same and were vastly outran by the negatives, which became significant and tiresome. When it ran out, I didn't want anymore.

Think I took 2g in about 12 - 18h.

My sense of balance was absolutely wrecked, even a day or two later. During and immediately afterwards, my eyes would drop in out out of focus to a terrible degree and for long durations. Blocks of text would change colour or words and sentences would look like the front colour had been changed, or a highlight colour applied.

The visual distortions are too wide spread and general. That's not what would happen if signals were being distorted at the synapses. The patterns are too simple, it's trauma of some kind. I've experienced genuine brain trauma from impacts and I've tripped a lot, so I can reference the two first hand. Mephedrone belongs with the first.

Suffice it to say, I wouldn't take it again if someone gave it to me for free.

It's up to something nasty.

[Edited on 27-7-2010 by peach]

I get a very similar blur if I really push myself sprinting. I think it has to do with dopamine or w/e being released in such massive amounts. 2 grams is alot man, I was having trouble sleeping for a day after I used like 600 or so milligrams in a binge, its an annoying drug because the peak wears off so quickly. IMO 2 gram's of mephedrone is like hammering a bottle of vodka and complaining of a hang over the next day :P


[Edited on 27-7-2010 by Chainhit222]

peach - 27-7-2010 at 13:35

Quote: Originally posted by Chainhit222  
Mephedrone
[Edited on 27-7-2010 by peach][/rquote]
I get a very similar blur if I really push myself sprinting. I think it has to do with dopamine or w/e being released in such massive amounts. 2 grams is alot man, I was having trouble sleeping for a day after I used like 600 or so milligrams in a binge, its an annoying drug because the peak wears off so quickly. IMO 2 gram's of mephedrone is like hammering a bottle of vodka and complaining of a hang over the next day :P
[Edited on 27-7-2010 by Chainhit222]


As someone who used to go out running every single night until I was sick, in sub zero temperatures and rain, I am well acquainted with those feelings too. I used to absolutely hate running and would walk the cross countries at school. Then got so into it I literally couldn't stand still and would be constantly bobbing up and down or milling around, and waking up in the middle of the night covered in sweat from my metabolism cooking away; girls would move off me in bed because I was baking hot all the time. Then I managed to wear out the groove for the tendon in my ankle, making it impossible to keep doing that. I spiraled down catastrophically when I lost that outlet.

That much is a fairly special amount to take, I took 500 to 750mg in one dose, after eating the rest of it over 12h. And I do take the point about the vodka similarity. But something about it just seemed wrong to me, some quality to it.

I felt kind of ripped off by it. Like some fancy car showroom guy who pretends to be everything and is actually a wanker who can't do anything.

The visuals are a complete joke. Comparing it to mushrooms, it's like a pirate copy of a cheesy porno, made on someone's VHS camcoder in the cinema, in 1980, copied 300 times and then compressed at the lowest bitrate possible into a fractured torrent.

Anothing that bothers me about is like you say, I didn't find myself itching to take more of it, but I'm sure a lot of people do when the positive effects suddenly nose dive to nowhere. It was doing that which ended up with me sat in my chair for 12h in the same position, not really enjoying it and getting annoyed.

Hmmmm, another way to describe those doses... it's like when you get really drunk and your vision starts to blur and slide. With alcohol, soon after you'll fall asleep. With this, it'll keep you awake and be permanently fixed to the centre of your vision. And be hanging around days later, or potentially weeks to months I suspect for myself. I've never had something do that. I don't like it and I don't want to repeat it.

If someone's that eager to try some drugs, find some E. Probably a lot safer and certainly far, far, far superior.

Alternatively, paint tiny airfix kits and fly them around going "nnnnnnnnnrrrrRRrnnnn pew pew pew!".