Sciencemadness Discussion Board - A small room lab setup (macGivered)

A small room lab setup (macGivered)

SWilkin676 - 21-4-2010 at 06:21

I think I've got a neat thing or two in my setup so far. Only took a couple of months of fiddling around to get this soxhlet setup in place.

I don't have a whole lot of room in my hobby room and I have a lot of hobbies. So a big countertop or laboratory table was out of the question. Instead I found a small nightstand that had a welded metal frame legs - took the top off and added a big dept store metal shelf as the table top.

To support the lab lattice I found a metal door frame that was once a demo for screen doors at a home improvement store. I made a stand for it using Tslot and angle steel from a bed frame. I mounted short pieces of electrical strut across the front and after a frustrating weekend looking for a quick fix to mount the lattice poles, I wound up creating custom mounts using some 6061 alumininum profile. (see pic closeup)

I'm using a fry daddy filled with silicon carbide (like a sand bath, only much hotter much faster) when I need serious heat. I put it on top of the thermolyne so I can use the magnetic stirbar. I coated the bottom of a one liter flask with copper gasket material to protect it from the silicone carbide. If anyone's got a better idea on that I'm open to it - the gasket seems to work, but I can't go around messing with all our glassware that way.

Next up is making some insulators for the soxhlet. I'm going to try combining ironing board fabric with (mineral wool I think it's called - store said it was fiberglass).

The brown stuff in the soxhlet is Eleutherococcus senticosus.

Not bad for someone who's never had a chemistry class not to mention never any plumbing training!! (did watch my partner setup a sohxlet though) He has an annoying habit of asking me why I don't just create my own lattice pole mounts instead of trying to MacGiver em - like metalworking is an assumed skill!!

Suzee

mountforlattice.jpg - 53kB

The WiZard is In - 21-4-2010 at 10:29

Looks like a lot or work to brew coffee.

chemoleo - 21-4-2010 at 14:38

Coffee?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleutherococcus_senticosus

What are you trying to extract from it?

By the way, there a number of threads with lab setups, please post there in the future (will merge another time)

entropy51 - 21-4-2010 at 15:01

Quote: Originally posted by SWilkin676

I'm using a fry daddy filled with silicon carbide (like a sand bath, only much hotter much faster) when I need serious heat. I put it on top of the thermolyne so I can use the magnetic stirbar. I coated the bottom of a one liter flask with copper gasket material to protect it from the silicone carbide. If anyone's got a better idea on that I'm open to it - the gasket seems to work, but I can't go around messing with all our glassware that way.

You didn't say what solvent you're using, but most of them have boiling points less than the boiling point of water. In such a case you could use a hot water bath. If you are refluxing water you may not extract anything interesting, but you could use oil in the Fry Daddy.

[Edited on 21-4-2010 by entropy51]

The WiZard is In - 21-4-2010 at 15:23

Quote: Originally posted by SWilkin676

I think I've got a neat thing or two in my setup so far. Only took a couple of months of fiddling around to get this soxhlet setup in place.

To support the lab lattice I found a metal door frame that was once a demo for screen doors at a home improvement store. I made a stand for it using Tslot

Suzee

Interesting use of strut channel which can be had
in stainless steel and two different depths.

SWilkin676 - 22-4-2010 at 05:49

...Use oil in the Fry Daddy
Are you sure you aren't my partner in disguise, he really doesn't understand why I don't want to use oil - many long discussions. I am a bit clumsy for starters, I'm new and making lots of mistakes which I usually catch right after I do them for 2nds.

I am probably going to switch to a water bath for now and probably buy a mantle next time I have any money. My partner has been doing chemistry since he was a kid so his views on efficiency in heating tend to influence me to go beyond what I think I need at this point. I see his point though. It takes a long time to get it ramped up. I only get a couple of hours after work at night to play with things.

My primary goal is getting setup and learning to do a sohxlet. Some of the studies reference an aqueous extraction, so I'm using that as the first run. Then I'm going to do an 2nd alcoholic one.

Suzee

[Edited on 22-4-2010 by SWilkin676]

[Edited on 22-4-2010 by SWilkin676]

SWilkin676 - 22-4-2010 at 05:51

Quote: Originally posted by The WiZard is In

Quote: Originally posted by SWilkin676

Interesting use of strut channel which can be had
in stainless steel and two different depths.

You can't see thet-slot - it's on the floor it's 8020 2 channel 3" stuff. Thestrut is what is mounted on the frame to hold the lattice poles.

[Edited on 22-4-2010 by SWilkin676]

SWilkin676 - 22-4-2010 at 06:02

Quote: Originally posted by The WiZard is In

Looks like a lot or work to brew coffee.

It's not work - it's fun (except for plumbing). I have to start somewhere. So it is for the long term exploration that I am setting up. First I learn to do a basic extraction and distillation techniques, then I learn to extract and separate specific elements. I am starting with relatively safe solvents and materials. And I am trying to set things up in a way that I can play for short periods of time.

My interest in chemistry started in nutrition from there into herbal supplements and then into phytochemistry.

I said when I started I didn't ever imagine doing reactions, have already changed my mind.

Actually was thinking of brewing raw cacao interesting phytochemicals in that stuff, coffee I'll leave to my partner. He does it just right. He is the real chemist in the house.

[Edited on 22-4-2010 by SWilkin676]

The WiZard is In - 22-4-2010 at 06:45

Quote: Originally posted by SWilkin676

Here is something you can extract :—

'Bakers may be at occupational risk of poppy-seed addiction'
Abstract from: The Lancet Volume 350, Number 9079 [6] 716-7 September 1997
MA King & et al Poppy tea and baker’s first seizure

“Doctors treating a baker who had a seizure at work suspected
drug-abuse which the patient denied until his business partner told them
that the bakery's weekly order of poppy seeds had gone up from 3 kg to
25 kg. The baker then admitted to drinking up to 2 L of tea made from
about 4 kg of poppy seed every day, a practice he was introduced to
during his apprenticeship. Mark King and colleagues from Victoria,
Australia, report this case in a Research Letter this week, and remark on
the patient's extraordinary drug tolerance since his daily consumption was
the equivalent of 280 mg of morphine, On admission his blood morphine
concentration was nearly 3 mg/L-heroin addicts who die of an overdose
have mean concentrations of 0-6 mg/L. He was admitted to a
rehabilitation programme where the poppy tea was replaced with
slow-release oral morphine.”

The WiZard is In - 22-4-2010 at 08:08

Quote: Originally posted by SWilkin676

Quote: Originally posted by The WiZard is In

Looks like a lot or work to brew coffee.

When you exchequer allows - a heating mantle would be
a good investment in convenience. Try eBay, remember
they are size/shape of flask specific. In the past variable
voltage transformers were used to vary heat, a full range light dimmer is a lot less expensive.

By da ... I thought most photochemicals were extracted using
steam? Can not bring to mind the name of the apparatus.

I believe they use grease for violets.

Magpie - 22-4-2010 at 08:11

Quote: Originally posted by The WiZard is In

The baker then admitted to drinking up to 2 L of tea made from about 4 kg of poppy seed every day... his daily consumption was the equivalent of 280 mg of morphine...

What?! Why hasn't the DEA banned poppyseeds for food use? No wonder my wife likes them so much: muffins, salad dressing, etc.

Based on the above the morphine content of poppyseeds is at least 70ppm.

SWilkin676 - 22-4-2010 at 12:32

"He was admitted to a rehabilitation programme where the poppy tea was replaced with slow-release oral morphine.”

I kinda noticed that the drug companies are going out of their way to make drugs that while lacking in any sort of make you feel good component also manage to retain the addictiveness. Here - get off that nasty old street drug and let us give you something we can make money on. I spent 10 years on Effexor which is more addicting than Heroin ever dreamed of being. Miss a dose and 3 days later you're psychotic and suicidal. Yummmm

I got a hippie for a boyfriend so you're not really ruffling any feathers he hasn't already thoroughly plucked.

Suzee

Lambda-Eyde - 22-4-2010 at 14:08

MacGyvered? Where's the duct tape?!

hissingnoise - 22-4-2010 at 14:08

And because marijuana is good for whatever ails you, it comes in for special attention from the DEA!
The lunatics have been running the asylum for the best part of eighty years now. . .

JohnWW - 22-4-2010 at 14:27

Quote: Originally posted by The WiZard is in

'Bakers may be at occupational risk of poppy-seed addiction'
Abstract from: The Lancet Volume 350, Number 9079 [6] 716-7 September 1997
MA King & et al Poppy tea and baker’s first seizure
“Doctors treating a baker who had a seizure at work suspected drug-abuse which the patient denied until his business partner told them that the bakery's weekly order of poppy seeds had gone up from 3 kg to 25 kg. The baker then admitted to drinking up to 2 L of tea made from about 4 kg of poppy seed every day, a practice he was introduced to during his apprenticeship. Mark King and colleagues from Victoria,
Australia, report this case in a Research Letter this week, and remark on the patient's extraordinary drug tolerance since his daily consumption was the equivalent of 280 mg of morphine, On admission his blood morphine concentration was nearly 3 mg/L-heroin addicts who die of an overdose have mean concentrations of 0-6 mg/L. He was admitted to a
rehabilitation programme where the poppy tea was replaced with slow-release oral morphine.”

Oh gosh, about two years ago, on impulse I bought at a shop remainders/surplus sale a 10 Kg bulk bag of poppy seeds! I was going to work my way through them, using them in cakes and as an additive (along with cayenne pepper etc.) in mustard made up from mustard powder. I am not a morphine/codeine addict, but I wonder what I should do with them now; I suppose I could put them in my first-aid cabinet, and use them as a pain-killer when needed for injuries.

I wonder where those poppy seeds came from? I doubt that poppies, of any species, are grown in New Zealand for their seeds, as opposed to their flowers. Extracting opium by hand from many unripe seed-heads would be simply uneconomic except in a low-wage economy, although in Tasmania they do it to obtain legal medical morphine and codeine for prescription use in Australia and New Zealand, in spite of the high labor cost involved. So I would not be surprised if they are, in fact, opium poppy seeds (Papaver Somniferum), probably from either Afghani$tan, Pakistan, India, Iran, Turkey, Lebanon, Burma, Laos, or Thailand, where they are grown for mostly illegal drug-trade purposes, and smuggled into Russia, Europe, and (probably mostly by the CIA) North America.

hissingnoise - 22-4-2010 at 14:35

If you plant them John, New Zealand's climate should give a mild opium.
Pleasant enough buzz, and less addictive - what's not to like?

gardenvariety - 22-4-2010 at 15:13

Quote: Originally posted by JohnWW

I wonder where those poppy seeds came from? I doubt that poppies, of any species, are grown in New Zealand for their seeds, as opposed to their flowers. Extracting opium by hand from many unripe seed-heads would be simply uneconomic except in a low-wage economy, although in Tasmania they do it to obtain legal medical morphine and codeine for prescription use in Australia and New Zealand, in spite of the high labor cost involved. So I would not be surprised if they are, in fact, opium poppy seeds (Papaver Somniferum), probably from either Afghani$tan, Pakistan, India, Iran, Turkey, Lebanon, Burma, Laos, or Thailand, where they are grown for mostly illegal drug-trade purposes, and smuggled into Russia, Europe, and (probably mostly by the CIA) North America.

I know very little about poppy cultivation, but as I understand it the cutting of the immature seed-heads triggers the plant to make more opium-containing resin, thus that cultivation is higher-yield than extracting from seed.

I would guess that anyone who keeps a garden already wouldn't find it too hard to grow enough poppy for personal use; people did that before the 20th century. Thomas Jefferson, for instance, from whose home (Monticello) the DEA wiped out all the poppies sometime in the 1980's, iirc, which were the direct descendants of poppies Jefferson grew there for medicinal use.

SWilkin676 - 22-4-2010 at 15:51

"I thought most photochemicals were extracted using
steam? Can not bring to mind the name of the apparatus."

I think you're thinking of essential oils - which in some cases are the active ingredient. The best extraction method for many phytochemicals is CO2 but a bit out of my range, although ya'll got a thread or two on it in here.

SWilkin676 - 22-4-2010 at 16:10

"MacGyvered? Where's the duct tape?! "

We used it all up in the dungeon.

peach - 1-5-2010 at 06:21

Quote: Originally posted by The WiZard is In

Quote: Originally posted by SWilkin676

“Doctors treating a baker who had a seizure at work suspected
drug-abuse which the patient denied until his business partner told them
that the bakery's weekly order of poppy seeds had gone up from 3 kg to
25 kg.

Roflcopterz!

Have you seen the mythbusters episode where they test this? Apparently, eating a poppy seed cake or bagels coated in them is enough that you'll test positive for drug abuse the next day. They decided to test it after hearing a story about a woman being fired after mandatory testing, having eaten a bagel the day before; or so she claimed anyway...

The WiZard is In - 1-5-2010 at 06:53

Quote: Originally posted by peach

Jails are full of people who while on parole ignored
warnings not eat any items with poppy seeds, failing
their drug tests, parole was revoked.

peach - 1-5-2010 at 10:43

Quote:

Jails are full of people who while on parole ignored warnings not eat any items with poppy seeds, failing their drug tests, parole was revoked.

[Edited on 1-5-2010 by peach]

Runningbear - 6-5-2010 at 22:57

Hey SWilkin676,

Are those fry daddy's made of aluminium? I'm assuming they must be if your running the mag stirrer underneath. No problems there? It stirs OK?

Runningbear

SWilkin676 - 10-5-2010 at 10:52

Quote: Originally posted by Runningbear

Hey SWilkin676,

Are those fry daddy's made of aluminium? I'm assuming they must be if your running the mag stirrer underneath. No problems there? It stirs OK?

Runningbear

Yes it works fine. First thing I checked - I keep a small magnet in my purse so I can check when I'm thrift shopping. The fry daddy got "borrowed" by my partner and transformed (heat controller revised etc), I am using a small aluminum fondue pot on top of my thermolyne for a peanut oil bath - finally got a sohxlet working! Don't need heavy heat or as much control for the stuff I'm doing right now.

SeaDonkey - 20-6-2010 at 11:38

Impressive setup. I also have too many hobbies and not enough space so this threads an inspiration to me.

SWilkin676 - 21-6-2010 at 05:45

I'm thinking of adding more stabilization to the base and see if I can hang stuff off of it like small platforms instead of the table. I'm also considering moving the strut instead of mountin it to the bar that was there, took enough time as it was and I wanted to get started!

Strut is better to use than tslot because the aluminum is more likely to get you into trouble than the metal in the strut. Tslot is smoother to move things in though.

SeaDonkey - 21-6-2010 at 07:30

Quote: Originally posted by SWilkin676

I'm using a fry daddy filled with silicon carbide (like a sand bath, only much hotter much faster) when I need serious heat.

Why not use it as an oil bath? There are a wide range of cooking oils with different boiling points and by mixing different oils you can adapt the boiling point to suit your needs.

SeaDonkey - 21-6-2010 at 07:34

Quote: Originally posted by Magpie

What?! Why hasn't the DEA banned poppyseeds for food use? No wonder my wife likes them so much: muffins, salad dressing, etc.

Based on the above the morphine content of poppyseeds is at least 70ppm.

Unwashed seeds also have opium residue on their outside. Eating a few poppy seed bagels actually causes people to fail drug tests because the tests are so sensitive.

Quote: Originally posted by SWilkin676

I kinda noticed that the drug companies are going out of their way to make drugs that while lacking in any sort of make you feel good component also manage to retain the addictiveness.

Not to mention toxicity.

Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise

And because marijuana is good for whatever ails you, it comes in for special attention from the DEA!
The lunatics have been running the asylum for the best part of eighty years now. . .

I'll sound like a conspiracy theorist saying this but I think marijuana poses a great threat to the government because of what it teaches people about their own mind. When I broke my hand badly (scaphoid fracture), it required an operation where they put two large metal rods in to hold the bone together. I was awake for the operation but they numbed my hand completely and they gave me a prescription for dilaudid for when the numbness wore off. I have a naturally high pain threshhold but this felt like I had my hand stuck in a baretrap and the dilaudid did absolutely NOTHING. I had quit smoking cannabis a long time before that but I finally resorted to getting a friend to roll a joint and the pain miraculously disappeared completely. I'm not joking all traces of pain disappeared once the THC took hold. THC and the other cannabinoids present are do not have any analgesic pharmacological properties if I'm not mistaken so this is a purely psychological thing. Thinking about it this being common knowledge would pose a threat to the pharmaceutical industries because people would know the mind alone is capable of nullifying pain which is more than can be said for their most effective analgesics which are more often than not opioids. I don't smoke cannabis but I believe its a crime keeping this stuff illegal, and keeping it from people suffering from extreme pain caused by cancer and other serious ailments is a crime against humanity. Sorry to wander off topic I just get passionate about these things lol.

[Edited on 21-6-2010 by SeaDonkey]