Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Reagents and Glassware in Finland

geekchem - 17-10-2009 at 14:35

Hello,

This is my first post here, so I'll give the requisite introduction: I am working in Helsinki as a software engineer and have always had a long-standing interest in chemistry, but unfortunately I do not have the time or language skills (Finnish) to study at the university... Basically, I'm looking for a hobby outside of the software field. :)

Currently I'm focusing on buying books and making sure I understand the theoretical concepts before attempting anything practical.

I am aware of the kind of image that the hobbyist chemist tends to generate in the minds of the uninformed... My concern is, that after gaining enough knowledge to attempt some practical experiments, it may prove difficult to obtain the reagents and glassware necessary.

Anyway, my main question: is there somewhere in Helsinki (or Finland) that would supply basic reagents and glassware to individuals? Based on searching, there is at least one member here from Finland. :)

Thanks in advance.

panziandi - 17-10-2009 at 15:01

No it shouldn't be an issue!

In Europe each country has its own eBay site, in addition, the nature of Europe allows you to fairly easily ship between countries within Europe. eBay is home to much science equipment, including glassware and also some chemicals.

Now the question is: what level of chemistry are you intending on entering into?

Are you already equipped with some knowledge? Are you going to start with the basics? Back to school approach. Or aiming a little higher?

In the UK, in school you do very little organic chemistry, the practical side is mainly inorganic chemistry, requiring basic common glassware (test tubes, beakers etc) whereas in college it is more organic, requiring more advanced glassware (such as ground glass jointed kits, flasks, stillheads, condensers etc). Which level you intend and indeed what fields of chemistry you are interested in will heavily influence both the reagents needed and the equipment needed.

geekchem - 17-10-2009 at 15:11

Ideally I'd like to get into organic chemistry and synthesis of complex compounds. I will admit, that if I do not find something challenging, then I'm likely to loose interest, so I prefer to (cautiously) "jump in the deep end." I did some chemistry back in school a long time ago, so I am basically learning from scratch again. However I do quite well learning on my own.

I've been browsing around online and looking at some organic chemistry kits (full fractional & vacuum distillation kits) and I think that would be a good place to start. I can always add to the kit later. I would prefer to find a supplier in Finland so that I don't have to pay (much) shipping and I know the components will be compatible (joint size, etc.)

panziandi - 17-10-2009 at 15:23

Yes... check out eBay for sellers in Finland or nearby countries? Also maybe worthwhile asking at your local school or college? Unfortunately all of the chemistry sets available are for inorganic chemitry, why they haven't made a basic organic chemistry set is beyond me (probably chemophobia and drug paranoia). I know that the German ebay site certainly has a lot to offer, and I shouldn't imagine the shipping would be extorionate!

geekchem - 17-10-2009 at 15:44

Just browsing on the global ebay site now (so it filters sales available to Finland) and it looks like quite slim pickings. :( I was looking at United Glass Technologies earlier; they seem to have some good organic chemistry kits (though I would probably substitute a few components.) The price is a little high, but the shipping is not bad. My concern would be customs thinking that I'm some kind of international drug lord. Customs in Finland are very strict...

I have been able to find some basic reagents over-the-counter by dumb luck; I have been doing some renovations on my home, and I needed some cleaning products, found technical grade Acetone, Xylene, granular NaOH (label advertises some added and unspecified catalyst for extra power), 90-100% (from MSDS) denatured Ethanol. I could only find the MSDS for the Ethanol so I have no idea about the quality of the others...

It would be far preferable to find a laboratory chemical supplier that would supply to individuals... I think many chemicals are not allowed to be transported by air nowadays. :(

Jor - 17-10-2009 at 15:50

Abou the reagents, contact sciencemadness member ScienceGeek.
he is in Finlands AFAIK, and he has no trouble buying bromine, white phosphorus, liquid nitrogen, etc. it seems:
http://www.youtube.com/user/mabakken

crazyboy - 17-10-2009 at 15:53

Quote: Originally posted by Jor  
Abou the reagents, contact sciencemadness member ScienceGeek.
he is in Finlands AFAIK, and he has no trouble buying bromine, white phosphorus, liquid nitrogen, etc. it seems:
http://www.youtube.com/user/mabakken


Actually he lives in Norway.

[Edited on 17-10-2009 by crazyboy]

geekchem - 17-10-2009 at 15:55

Quote: Originally posted by Jor  
Abou the reagents, contact sciencemadness member ScienceGeek.
he is in Finlands AFAIK, and he has no trouble buying bromine, white phosphorus, liquid nitrogen, etc. it seems:
http://www.youtube.com/user/mabakken

Actually, he's in Norway, and quoting from his YouTube site:
Quote:

Also, questions regarding the acquisition of either chemicals or apparatus will be ignored.

Lambda-Eyde - 17-10-2009 at 17:12

Actually, he is from Norway, but currently he's studying in Ukraine (IIRC). :)

Geekchem, check out some of the suppliers that sell to schools and universities in Finland. Also, make sure to check out Fisher Scientific.

geekchem - 18-10-2009 at 03:50

Quote: Originally posted by Lambda-Eyde  
Geekchem, check out some of the suppliers that sell to schools and universities in Finland. Also, make sure to check out Fisher Scientific.


Thanks, I'll give that a try once I have done more study. I was, however, under the impression that the large companies: Fisher Scientific, Alfa Aesar, etc do not care to deal with the amateur chemist because they would not be ordering massive quantities like a large company would, and also because of drug paranoia.

I guess it's worth checking into, though. Thanks. :)

woelen - 18-10-2009 at 09:21

Finland is part of the EU and shouldn't it be possible to obtain chemicals from EU-based companies, selling to individuals? I know quite a few, shipping inside the EU. Also on eBay there are sellers, who ship to EU-countries. Even iodine is available on eBay in pure crystalline form, shipped to any country in the EU (mostly from the UK, Poland, Estonia, but sometimes other countries as well).

A seller, who sells lots of chemicals is http://www.keten.com.pl/. He ships to EU countries, but if you order from them, you need to combine quite a lot of things in one order, due to the shipping cost (shipping from them to where I live, NL, is EUR 30, regardless of total weight).

I must admit though, that complex organic chemicals are much harder to obtain than inorganic chemicals, like metal salts, acids, oxidizers, reductors and so on. If you are exclusively interested in organic chemistry, then I am afraid that you will have a much harder time.

geekchem - 20-10-2009 at 15:11

woelen, I see you're from the Netherlands; have you brought glassware internationally before? My concern here is customs either confiscating the order, or finding some obscure law to make it illegal to posses and charge you with it, which is complete insanity, but the level of paranoia these days is very high.

Since I don't read Finnish, I can't read the customs importation documents.

In the future I was thinking of ordering from United Glass Tech in the U.S.; they seem to have some good looking kits (though I would substitute quite a few components.)

IPN - 20-10-2009 at 23:52

For a finnish glassware/labware supplier I have always trusted Laborexin in my needs. :)

Also contact me through U2U for some tips on chem suppliers, there are plenty of OTC sources even in Finland.

[Edited on 21.10.2009 by IPN]

Neo-6 - 21-10-2009 at 07:35

Hi:)

I'm semi-professional from finland, and have looked for chemicals for years, and i'll be happy to give you advice, but as you havent told me exactly what you are looking for i can still hive you general guidelines.

glassware;
http://www.bebek.fi/kauppa/index2.php

Bebek electronic sells mainly electronic components but have selection on basic erlenmeyer flasks and decanters for cheap, but only have limited amount of articles for sale.

carl roth
http://www.carl-roth.de/website/en-de/carl-roth_index.jsp

is a company that can ship chemicals and apparatus to finland.

most companies in finland dont sell to private citizens directly, but some pharmacies are willing to order equipment for you, but that depends a lot if they like the cut of your jib...

as for chemicals...

basic solvents such as acetone, toluene , ethanol,diethyl ether, methanol, xylene can be bought in stores such as 'biltema', 'motonet' and 'minimani'.

biltema also sells sulfuric acid (on the label 30-100%) for 1,5€ per liter, witch is a must have in all labs.they also carry calcium chloride for drying of boats for 2€ a kilo.

all of those are no questions asked products.

as for oxidants

ammonium nitrate is sold pure in cold packs, some agricultural stores sell it in bulk but if you dont speak the language i'd not recoment that option.

also varnia pottery shop

http://varnia.fi/product_catalog.php

they sell metallic salts in quite pure powder form



and, as a general rule, in finland it's not illegal to posess chemicals, but i would suggest avoiding ordering any chemical that could be used for anything harmfull.If you can make it yoursellf do it.And also if you can get somebody local to buy stuff for you.A foreign national asking for chemicals from suppliers without company credit card isn't very good in finnish mentality;)

woelen - 22-10-2009 at 03:53

Quote: Originally posted by geekchem  
woelen, I see you're from the Netherlands; have you brought glassware internationally before? My concern here is customs either confiscating the order, or finding some obscure law to make it illegal to posses and charge you with it, which is complete insanity, but the level of paranoia these days is very high.
Yes, I have purchased glassware and chemicals from foreign companies before and never had any trouble. Glassware can be purchased from any place in the world and the same is true for most electrical and electronic devices. I even purchased quite a few chemicals from outside the EU (mostly the USA and some from Canada), but only non-suspicious ones, such as KBr, KI, Na2SO3, Na2S2O5, NH4SCN, etc.). A nice source for that kind of chemicals is www.artcraftchemicals.com. The more dangerous chemicals (e.g. corrosives, oxidizers, metal powders) should not be purchased from a place outside the EU, but in the EU quite a few of these can be obtained as well.

geekchem - 24-10-2009 at 15:12

Thank you all for the replies. I hope to start gradually buying chemicals and equipment while still studying so this information is very helpful. Not to mention that it's very hard for a foreigner to know about the local stores etc.

Carl Roth looks like it's another company which doesn't deal with individuals, though. :(

Btw, I have been looking at some stirrer/hotplates and the prices tend to vary enormously. The cheapest one I've been able to find it from Maker Shed (currently out of stock) at $150 USD... But then I have also seen professional models for upwards of 300 Euros.

I wonder if this is just because the professional models have to adhere to more safety specifications, or you are actually buying a technically better product; more accurate temperature control, for example?

I think for my basic needs whatever I could get cheapest would be sufficient...

iHME - 25-10-2009 at 10:23

You can get Carl-Roth glassware in finlanf thru Cheminent (Cheminent.fi), But they will charge you for shipping from germany to finland and then for the shipping from their location to yours.
And they do throw in a extra 50 or so eur because you are not a corparate entity.

geekchem - 26-10-2009 at 19:50

Quote: Originally posted by iHME  
You can get Carl-Roth glassware in finlanf thru Cheminent (Cheminent.fi), But they will charge you for shipping from germany to finland and then for the shipping from their location to yours.
And they do throw in a extra 50 or so eur because you are not a corparate entity.


Oh, thank you for that information. :) Yeah, I expect that chemistry is not a cheap hobby but I still have plenty of study to do before buying equipment.

It looks like Cheminent will deal with individuals, too, if you submit your order as an email and list your uses for any chemicals purchased. Which is perfectly reasonable. (Assuming Google Translate got it right. :P)

geekchem - 26-10-2009 at 22:13

I found out the stirrer hotplate offered by Make Shed is 110V only, so not suitable. Which is too bad, considering the cost of some of the professional ones. Then again I suppose paying for quality is not a bad thing in the end.

Dramo - 1-11-2009 at 11:41

I haven't ordered from here but I most certainly will:
http://stores.shop.ebay.de/hcl-labor__W0QQ_armrsZ1
Shipping costs to Finland have been stated and prices are very reasonable.

And then just keep your eyes on UK and DE eBays:
http://business.shop.ebay.de/Labor-Mess-Pruftechnik-/124706/...
http://business.shop.ebay.co.uk/Medical-Lab-Equipment-/11815...
You'll find great bargains. Just remember to ask about shipping to Finland before bidding. It isn't usually any problem especially for ebay.de sellers. Only like 10% refuse..

As for chemicals, places worth checking out might include:
Czort shop (Poland)
Lp-Chemicals (UK)
Readyreagents http://www.readyreagents.co.uk/ (UK)
Lippert (Germany)
Kremer pigmente (Germany)

Just Google the names.

Few words about Finnish suppliers.
I have heard that Laborexin is great (I have handled its products, good quality) BUT yes, it is expensive too. And I should also mention that Bebek's glassware is complete rubbish. Don't waste your money on it while you can get decent glassware from ebay etc with practically same price.

(And yes you are correct with the Cheminent ordering procedure; it's through email and numerous additional fees on to the top of already high prices :D)