Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Nitric acid - commercial sources

Runningbear - 21-9-2009 at 19:42

I have heard that you can buy 10% nitric acid solution OTC and also that it's found in some brands of lime scale remover at concentrations of up to 30%. However, I've been unable to find anything like this. Does anyone know the brand names of some products that are just diluted nitric acid and nothing else.

Ephoton - 22-9-2009 at 01:22

I am only posting this as I might get my name over the whole board and become
a post whore there for ........

will I eva get any :)

picking juice for tig welds.

it is about 30% nitric then a heap of goop and some HF.

distill and you should get nitric.

Jor - 22-9-2009 at 02:52

And what apparatus would you use to distill the mixture of HF and nitric? That might be a little bit difficult, as glass disolves, and many metals...

bilcksneatff - 22-9-2009 at 03:16

What about converting the acids to the calcium salts? Calcium fluoride is insoluble and calcium nitrate is soluble...then you could always distill the nitric using sulfuric acid...

1281371269 - 22-9-2009 at 11:20

In the UK:
lpchemicals.com send to home addresses, this is reagent grade 70% (I have a bottle in my lab)
abbey-chemicals.co.uk is another site, but I looked at their HNO3 and it's made by LP

A much better bet is seeing if someone on the forum will sell you some. But surely you can get drain cleaner and a nitrate?

hissingnoise - 22-9-2009 at 11:27

One good thing about 70% is that upping the conc. doesn't use up your H2SO4. . .
You could say you're an artist and need it to etch copper plates for printing.

1281371269 - 22-9-2009 at 11:31

Come to think of it, would organic impurities in the drain cleaner react with the HNO3...probably :(. I suppose if you did it at above the BP of HNO3 then most would be boiled off before it had reacted. Dehydrating the acid would have the same issues.

entropy51 - 22-9-2009 at 12:03

Quote: Originally posted by Mossydie  
Come to think of it, would organic impurities in the drain cleaner react with the HNO3...probably :(. I suppose if you did it at above the BP of HNO3 then most would be boiled off before it had reacted. Dehydrating the acid would have the same issues.
Mossydie, just quit buying that crap drain cleaner that's 30% organic additives. The Rooto I get is clear as water and causes no problems with nitric.:D

chloric1 - 22-9-2009 at 13:00
Quote:

Mossydie, just quit buying that crap drain cleaner that's 30% organic additives. The Rooto I get is clear as water and causes no problems with nitric.



You know entropy, I have never done since I have had a HUGE bottle of 70% HNO3 for 7 years and used to think nitrates would always be readily available. But, a couple of weeks ago when I saw that I have only a few hundred millilters left, I knew I had choices. One, do what I did 7 years ago and drive 120 miles one way and spend $50 on 2.5 liters plus $35 in gas. Second, order $100 worth of acid from other supplier to justify the hazmat shipping, or lastly use some of my nitrate reserves and my $9 Rooto half gallon and get to work. Hmmm I like the last choice . I just can't get over how easy it is! The so call red fuming acid is really yellow and adding water to 50 or 60% concentration turns it crystal clear. I want to see if I can clear up the fuming acid with a pinch of urea. Have you ever made aqua regia with 99% nitric acid? Neat ain't it:cool:

[Edited on 9/22/2009 by chloric1]

[Edited on 9/22/2009 by chloric1]

entropy51 - 22-9-2009 at 13:16

Yeah, I sort of enjoy making HNO3 myself. I refuse to pay hazmat on anything I can make myself. And I'd rather not have huge stocks of HNO3 and other hazardous materials here, so I make stuff as I need it. It takes my breath away when members mention a huge stock of something hazardous. I'd rather clean up a small spill.

But I've never tried aqua regia with 99%. Bromine and HCN are way exciting enough for me!

Magpie - 22-9-2009 at 13:41

If you have the equipment making nitric acid is really quite easy. I'm making some right now, as I type. Just set the heat control and let it go. I make it in about 120 ml batches. I made a batch yesterday and decided that while I had the equipment set up I'd just make another batch today.

I have given a thought to buying a 2.5L jug. But I have a bunch of KNO3 and Rooto, so, as entropy says, why pay hazmat.

1281371269 - 22-9-2009 at 13:47

I haven't bought any of the crap drain cleaner since the first 1L bottle which I decolourized and use for rubbish applications (like making piranha acid to clear the bit of orange peel I couldn't get of the RBF the other day).

I have 5l of reagent grade and a litre or so concentrated battery acid, so I'm pretty set on that front. But the suggestion was for the person who opened the thread.

If I manage to get that quickfit equipment I asked about I should be able to try making RF HNO3 soonish (though I have no applications in mind for the stuff)

Runningbear - 22-9-2009 at 19:09

Thanks for the feedback guys. I want the nitric for making Aqua Regia. The plan is to distill 10 ml or so with the help of a salted ice water bath for the receiving flask. i have 96% Sulfuric acid already.

Is this the best approach?

thanks

Runningbear

Klute - 22-9-2009 at 19:27

Well, in nFrance you can get 65% HNO3 over the counter, for like 3e a liter.. Tha's why I couldn't understand the number of posts on manufacturing HNO3 while it was one of the most availble things to me.. It's actually easier to get water-clear HNO3 than H2SO4!

Contrabasso - 23-9-2009 at 09:38

Availability depends on the country in which you live! 35% nitric in used as pH down in some Hydroponics.

GaryC - 26-9-2009 at 05:33

I source dilute nitric acid (38%) from hydroponics stores, where it is sold as a pH adjuster. For conc. nitric, I react conc. (97-98%) sulphuric acid (drain opener) with solid sodium nitrate and collect the vapours in a all-glass Quickfit distillation set-up.

1281371269 - 26-9-2009 at 06:22

Or indeed with teflon tape covered bungs. For over 70% distill again under vacuum.

hissingnoise - 26-9-2009 at 07:00

Mossydie, distilling HNO3 from NaNO3/H2SO4 in a quick-fit apparatus will give 95% HNO3 (or better) at normal pressure. . .

1281371269 - 26-9-2009 at 07:13

I'm sorry about that - I've been reading up on it and realised my mistake, which was from misunderstanding a video I watched a while back. Vacuum is for removing the dissolved NO2 to make white fuming right?

Here are some other methods:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yE7v4wkuZU&feature=fvw

To then get pure 70% would one calculate the concentration of the distilled HNO3 and add the correct amount of water, or simply add an excess of water and redistill?

hissingnoise - 26-9-2009 at 07:32

Distilling at reduced pressure causes the HNO3 to distill at lower temperature so that there's little decomposition to NO2.
When diluting strong HNO3 bear in mind that its density is ~1.50. . .
For 70% add 1 litre of strong acid to 45ml water with stirring.

[Edited on 26-9-2009 by hissingnoise]

entropy51 - 26-9-2009 at 08:31

Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  
For 70% add 1 litre of strong acid to 45ml water with stirring.


That can't be right, can it?

hissingnoise - 26-9-2009 at 08:54

Ooops! You're right entropy51---it should of course be 450ml---missed a zero. . .
I meant to write; 100ml to 45ml.

1281371269 - 26-9-2009 at 08:59

Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  
Mossydie, distilling HNO3 from NaNO3/H2SO4 in a quick-fit apparatus will give 95% HNO3 (or better) at normal pressure. . .


If the % HNO3 produced could be between 95% and 100%, then the amount of water to add surely can't be definite...?

hissingnoise - 26-9-2009 at 09:05

No, that's a rough estimate, but for an exact figure you'd need to check the acid density with an hydrometer and do the math. . .

Runningbear - 26-9-2009 at 23:41

Can someone confirm for me the concentration of nitric acid that is required for aqua regia. Is 70% nitric acid sufficient to disolve metal? or does it have to be higher.

Picric-A - 27-9-2009 at 04:34

70% is fine to dissolve Pt, Au ect.

devongrrl - 10-10-2009 at 01:52

I'd second Gary's approach. I can obtain 39% HNO3 from hydroponics suppliers and distill at atmos pressure with sulphuric to get a decent result.