itchyfruit - 7-7-2009 at 03:45
Hi all
Does anyone know anything about this stuff? it is in a big (about 10L) blue plastic drum it has what i assume is a product name of Varigard 415 and a
corrosive sign. It says it is a aqueous solution containing Hydroxyphosphono-acetic acid c2h5o6p. It has a slightly sticky texture and it took about
10g of cuco3 to neutralise 10ml of it, it has a slight brown colouring but does not smell that strongly of vinegar. When left overnight the mixture
with cuco3 seems to have started to solidify.
What i would really like to know is can it be purified?
not_important - 7-7-2009 at 07:17
http://www.watertreatmentchemical.us/01-HPAA-3.htm
Purified for what? It looks to be technically pure.
[Edited on 7-7-2009 by not_important]
itchyfruit - 7-7-2009 at 09:42
opps sorry
I mean could i get glacial acetic acid from it?
panziandi - 7-7-2009 at 11:19
"Properties:
Hydroxyphosphono-acetic acid is chemically stable, hard to be hydrolyzed, hard to be destroyed by acid or alkali, safety in use, no toxicity, no
pollution. Hydroxyphosphono-acetic acid can improve zinc solubility. Its corrosion inhibition ability is 5-8 times better than that of HEDP and EDTMP.
When built with low molecular polymers, its corrosion inhibition effect is even better. "
So by reading that I'd say no you won't be able to easily obtain glacial acetic acid from it.
A further reason is that it is Hydroxyphosphono-acetic acid and if you look at the structure you will see it is hydroxyacetic acid joined to
phosphoric acid moeity trhough a C-P bond. So even if you were able to break the C-P bond you will end up with hydroxyacetic acid not glacial acetic
acid.
itchyfruit - 7-7-2009 at 12:07
That clears that up then!!
I take it that it's pretty useless stuff then(unless i want to purify some water)
panziandi - 7-7-2009 at 12:29
pH(1% solution) 1.0-3.0 and I expect that the b.p. is very high also. It could be used where a high bp acidic media is required for a reaction. I am
speculating though!
itchyfruit - 7-7-2009 at 14:57
If you heat it up it becomes tar like and has a sort of burnt sugar type smell (could be contaminated i suppose)
Well any sugestions as to what to do with it? i guess it would be ok to pour it down the sink if it's no good for anything!!
1281371269 - 7-7-2009 at 15:15
Sell it?
Purify water with it?
Seems a shame to pour it away...
[Edited on 7-7-2009 by Mossydie]
itchyfruit - 7-7-2009 at 15:59
I don't think it would be much use to anyone else either, and i certainly wouldn't want to drink water purified with it
pip - 7-7-2009 at 17:18
Even If you are going to get rid of it consider keeping an small amount you never know what'll be useful in the future.
itchyfruit - 8-7-2009 at 10:35
I'll certainly keep a couple of litres just incase i find a use for it.
The old container i'll use for waste chemicals.
chloric1 - 8-7-2009 at 12:28
Before you get rid of it, try making at least 10 salts of the acid. Next compare the solubility of these salts at various temperatures. Also try to
dissolve the various salts in alcohol or acetone. You may have a new acid capable of isolating an cation or anion that you are interested in.
For example, lets say that the potassium salt is only 2 grams in 100 ml of water at 0 degrees C. You could add the acid to dilute potassium chlorate
solution to isolate dilute chloric acid. Or maybe the lead salt is soluble in water but the ferric is not.
itchyfruit - 8-7-2009 at 13:31
This sounds like it's worth a try.
I tried some with copper carbonate(hoping to make copper acetate) but just got a green glope.
Are you saying if i tried with kclo3 i may get potassium acetate and chloric acid?
But what would happen to phosphate?
I only have fecl feo and feso which one would be best to use for the ferric salt?
As for lead i only have nitrate acetate oxide or carbonate !!
DJF90 - 8-7-2009 at 14:01
You cant split it up. You would get salts of Hydroxyphosphono-acetic acid, aka hydroxyphosphonoacetates 
. They may well have some interesting uses as chloric1 suggests. Try it out. Maybe plot some solubility curves. It'll
be a good learning experience even if you don't find any amazing use for the acid.
itchyfruit - 8-7-2009 at 15:05
Would i be correct in assuming that to plot a solubility curve i would have to mix it with an alkali, till it becomes neutral.
Then heat it to remove any water.
Then dissolve it in water or alcohol making notes on the amount of salt/liquid and temperature?
DJF90 - 8-7-2009 at 16:16
Yes you're along the right lines. I'm sure more thorough instructions can be found online somewhere - theres bound to be a worksheet on it from an
educational institution; I know I've seen one before I'm just not sure where.
itchyfruit - 8-7-2009 at 16:42
I think i have the general idea, i'll give it a go tomorrow after work.
Allthough i'm not sure how well it will form salts!!!
itchyfruit - 10-7-2009 at 02:28
Quick update i dissolved some copper sulphate in some and it has formed a light green precipitate, any suggestions as to what it may be ?
felt and naoh both dissolved to form a light brown liquid.
I'm gonna try some ammonia later.
itchyfruit - 10-7-2009 at 02:29
sorry not felt FECL
UnintentionalChaos - 10-7-2009 at 06:29
What the hell is FECL? Use proper naming please. Ferrous or ferric chloride? (FeCl2 or FeCl3)
itchyfruit - 10-7-2009 at 06:47
i'm not sure which one it is it only has FECL on the container!!
itchyfruit - 11-7-2009 at 13:50
The stuff i have is in little brown balls that stain everything yellow for some weird reason, any suggestions as to which one it is?
itchyfruit - 11-7-2009 at 13:55
As for making salts, when neutralised with ammonia and heated in the oven at 120oc it just evaporated to leave a brown goo. ?