Sciencemadness Discussion Board

unrestrictedchemicals.com

smuv - 13-9-2008 at 08:18

The website is a little sketchy; but looking at what they are selling it really doesn't look like any kind of sting operation.

Could be a good source for sodium cyanide which has been hard for me to acquire (considered making it).

http://unrestrictedchemicals.com/shop/

Comments? Concerns? Opinions?

Picric-A - 13-9-2008 at 08:24

looks dodgy... the only things they sell are sodium, sodium cyanide and nitric acid... along with asbestos :O
All dangerous materials...
I wouldnt order from them, just ask yourself, why dont they stock chems commonly used, eg, solvents, nomral salts ect...

panziandi - 13-9-2008 at 08:44

I don't like it!

I don't trust sites which have no postal address for starters! You should ask yourself, if this "company" is responsible and legit it should have an office or supply house with address on the site. The email address is a single person not sales@ enquires@ etc. With only 3 chemicals listed all of which seem slightly dodgy, the pictures all look like they are stolen from google, etc... I'd stay clear. Perhaps you should check photography suppliers for CN salts or make it yourself probably much safer than buying off this outfit.

Good luck

evil_lurker - 13-9-2008 at 10:29

Hmmmm their phone number is 480-593-4027... which when googled turns up Greenlight computer services:

Greenlight Computer Services is a mobile service for the East Valley of theMetro Pheonix area. With over 10 years professional experience in the valley servicing companies such as United States Postal Service, Allied Signal, Microchip and Adoption.com, we can get you and your business running again in record time. And because of our background in servicing companies with 2000+ computers, we get things done right the first time. We schedule same day service Monday through Saturday.

One thing that caught my eye was the mention of Pheonix, which IIRC is in Arizona, where all the problems with KNO3 and the gov't sting operations are located.

kilowatt - 13-9-2008 at 13:05

Sodium cyanide and nitric acid are not scheduled by the DEA to my knowledge. It is very odd that they only offer these few, and dangerous, things, however. If this is a sting operation, it's for going after general chemists like us, not "criminals." Whether it's a sting or not though, anyone buying from them can probably expect to be raided, since the feds will procure a list of customers once they discover and go after the company.

panziandi - 13-9-2008 at 13:24

It just looks like a very dodgy setup, either a sting op or someone who just wants to make money from selling niche dangerous goods. I expect they won't be sent properly despite what they claim about hazmat fees 50 bucks, 30 on packing and 20 additional from currier! Avoid them I would.

Picric-A - 13-9-2008 at 13:46

i agree with kilowatt... even if they arnt a sting op or run by the dea they will almost definatly be watched... especially becuase of what they sell, even though cyanide isnt listed it is still know to be dangerous and practically all its uses are illegal...

smuv - 13-9-2008 at 14:10

I want cyanide to experiment with alternative copper electroplating processes...hardly illegal....

kclo4 - 13-9-2008 at 14:17

Well you could try to make Cyanide from reducing a Cyanate.
Sodium Cyanate is easily prepared by mixing a sodium base with urea.

NaOCN + C = NaCN + CO

You'd probably need to cover the reaction since cyanide is easily oxidized to cyanate. Grinding the an excess amount of carbon with the cyanate into a very well mixed fine powder would probably lead to the best reduction.
I believe their is a lot of information on the board about making cyanides though.

panziandi - 13-9-2008 at 14:23

True but that supplier is offering 4oz (113g) for $5.00 but it will incur $50 shipping! making 113g of NaCN cost $55. 113g is not a great deal either really. You should be able to source it from online photography companies if you tried hard enough, perhaps ones in another country it wouldn't surprise me if you could have a company airmail you a small quantity despite it's awful public image! You could try a local jewlers also. I wouldn't risk $55 of your money on a company that:

1) may take your money and never ship the item (can't see people goin to the local cops and saying "I got ripped off online for 4oz of cyanide")

2) may be a sting op and you may be investigated

3) etc getting the picture

Would probably be even cheaper in teh long run to make your own cyanides?...

pantone159 - 13-9-2008 at 21:48

They list 50,000 units of ACS NaCN, at 4 oz each. That is about 5.5 metric tons or so. Somehow I find that difficult to believe.

smuv - 14-9-2008 at 08:17

Aside from a lot of bad things I liked the fact the site flat out said :
Quote:
We do not share your information with anyone outside regular law enforcment. We keep all records for at least 2 years which are freely available to any reporting agency.


IMO this gives some legitimacy. But people here have raised some good points as well. Also remember that this is a relatively new site IIRC it was started earlier this year.

Quote:
True but that supplier is offering 4oz (113g) for $5.00 but it will incur $50 shipping! making 113g of NaCN cost $55.


You have to pay hazmat, there is no way around that. I think 30 dollars is a more reasonable price but any seller will charge hazmat for cyanide. I could just as easily buy 40oz and pay the same fee.

I have found if you spend all your time making reagents you dont have time to do what you find interesting. As well, since I value my health, my lab would have to undergo time consuming upgrades to make me feel comfortable making this via its most OTC direct method (pot. ferrocyanide dilute acid).

Quote:
Originally posted by kclo4
Well you could try to make Cyanide from reducing a Cyanate.


It is much easier to say than to do...


I guess my final thoughts are (Feel free to openly disagree):

Its not a sting operation. Based on the chemicals supplied.

My risk of raising suspicion ordering from them is just as likely as from anywhere else because I want cyanide which is inherently suspicious.

This being said: It is a sketchy website that looks like it is targeted at irresponsible people.

If I ever did decide to order; I would contact the seller beforehand and ask some things. Such as why 3/4 items he sells are suspicious. I would also ask how the cyanide would be shipped and compare that to the guidelines for the specific postal carrier.


Thanks everyone for the responses; some good points have been brought up.

[Edited on 9-14-2008 by smuv]

panziandi - 14-9-2008 at 09:45

perhaps email them and ask if their cyanide is of a suitable purity for research into alternative copper electroplating processes (as thats your actual interest in it) and see what they suggest. I would only order a small order from them incase they do rip you off though.

undead_alchemist - 14-9-2008 at 11:11

It does not look good.

But then again, my own companies website needs to be rebuild in a major way.
And Cyanide is not hard for us to order in for customers. Just need an EUD from the customer.

smuv - 14-9-2008 at 11:18

Yes there is a canadian photography supplier; I just feel strange importing cyanide from Canada into the united states. Other laboratory suppliers I have dealt with will not sell any cyanides to individuals.

P.S. What is 'EUD'?

[Edited on 9-14-2008 by smuv]

panziandi - 14-9-2008 at 11:31

End User Declaration

undead_alchemist - 14-9-2008 at 12:10

I know who you are talking about, just won't list names.

Most courier's won't ship a Class 6.1 hazmat product across the border.
Quote:
Originally posted by smuv
Yes there is a canadian photography supplier; I just feel strange importing cyanide from Canada into the united states. Other laboratory suppliers I have dealt with will not sell any cyanides to individuals.

P.S. What is 'EUD'?

[Edited on 9-14-2008 by smuv]

Busted

jarynth - 15-9-2008 at 06:19

The size of their stock is rather suspicious: such large, round numbers... Anyway, here's what I found about this seller. The domain unrestrictedchemicals.com was registered on

March 29, 2008 to Domains By Proxy, Inc.:
Quote:

Domains By Proxy, Inc
+1.(480) 624-2599 Phone
15111 N Hayden Rd Suite 160, PMB 353
SCOTTSDALE, Arizona 85260
United States
www.domainsbyproxy.com

Domains By Proxy was conceived to deal with one of the biggest shortcomings of the Internet — the loss of privacy. We believe you should be able to keep your personal information private when you register a domain -- and now you can, by switching your “public” registration to a “private” one. Our private registration process is so unique that two patent applications are pending.


Indeed, we already have quite a few acquaintances in and around Scottsdale, Az who like setting up websites.

According to a comment to this video, 'ajhalls' from Mesa, Az implies he is the true owner of unrestrictedchemicals.com:
Quote:

ajhalls
from Mesa, AZ
06/11/08 at 11:14 pm

It was a video just like this that inspired me to try making homemade sodium metal. I talked with Theodore Gray about it and my college professors and after a long 6 months and around a thousand dollars realized that combining them is easy, seperating them much harder. I did finally come up with some to share for those who

like me want to always do it myself.

www.unrestrictedchemicals.com


Arguably the same sodium-obsessed person posts on Yahoo! Answers as 'Alan H' corroborating the fact that he's been trying to make sodium, he's bought some, and he's now selling some through unrestrictedchemicals.com.

How many 'Alan Halls' are there trying to make sodium? A search for this combination quickly turned up an interesting photo gallery hosted on alanhalls.com depicting the construction of a furnace for melting and electrolyzing NaCl, consistent with Alan H's posts.

Whois info:
Quote:

NA

1318 E Hale St
Mesa, Arizona 85203
United States

Registered through: GoDaddy.com, Inc. (http://www.godaddy.com)
Domain Name: ALANHALLS.COM
Created on: 07-Oct-02
Expires on: 07-Oct-08
Last Updated on: 02-Apr-08

Administrative Contact:
Halls, Alan ajhalls@hotpop.com
NA
1318 E Hale St
Mesa, Arizona 85203
United States
(480) 593-4027

Technical Contact:
Halls, Alan ajhalls@hotpop.com
NA
1318 E Hale St
Mesa, Arizona 85203
United States
(480) 593-4027


This guy didn't make such a good job of protecting his privacy, as he probably wished. His homepage is brimful with personal details, including his phone number, which agrees with the one on unrestrictedchemicals.com.

I hope this info helps everyone confirm or dismiss their suspicion.

[Edited on 15-9-2008 by jarynth]

zed - 22-9-2008 at 10:29

Geez, I wouldn't think NaCN would be that hard to find. Miners and refiners use it to leach gold out of crushed ore. Jewelers can use it in a number of processes. Eccentric rural types (ranchers) might use it to poison coyotes.

Yeah, its pretty toxic......But, in this case, your inherent weirdness shouldn't be a major obstacle to obtaining the product you desire, otc.. Miners, manufacturing Jewelers, and Ranchers..........Some of the strangest types ever to put on shoes. You'll fit right in.

Do your homework, then ask at the local feed store, or jewelry supply.

Sodium metal, on the other hand, is not so easy to buy anymore. And, Lithium metal, is quite difficult.

Magpie - 22-9-2008 at 14:55

Quote:

Geez, I wouldn't think NaCN would be that hard to find.


I agree that one can likely find sources for NaCN or KCN, even if not advertised on the seller's website. My concern is that buying same seems like an open invitation for a visit from some three lettered agency, probably the FBI.

I am interested in the experiences of others when buying cyanides.

chemrox - 23-9-2008 at 22:55

I just found out I need an $1100, DEA, Impoter's License to buy from anyone outside the US. This doesn't sound right but that's DEA's position and their web site reads that way. If so I've put a friend in an awkward position. He's gotten some materials for me that were such a sweet deal I asked for a lot.

zed - 24-9-2008 at 19:52

I don't know if you need an importers license to bring in "All Chemicals" from outside the US. I just reviewed the regulations recently, and I didn't get the impression you needed the permit for every type of chemical import.

But, I certainly wouldn't try to import anything list 1(List 1 is strictly forbidden without a permit). Nor, would I import any explosives or poisons. Homeland security is likely to intercept it. And then, there will be trouble.

In the case of DEA list 1 materials....."Homeland" will pass off your stuff to the DEA, and the DEA will make a "controlled" delivery.

You end up going to jail.

Importing is more suspicious than buying outright in the U.S.. Some things that are suspicious, but not criminal to possess, are criminal to import. Like for instance....a small quantity of sassafras oil. You can wildcraft the roots and make the oil, or even buy small amounts of the oil outright. Apparently, it really isn't illegal to possess, provided you don't fractionate it, or alter it chemically....and you aren't planning to do so.

Yet, if you import some of the "Root Beer" smelling stuff, from South East Asia, or France...and you get caught. Oh, man. You are really in trouble.

As for cyanide, my buddy Dr. Death, used to just walk in and buy it at the local Chem supply. Dr. Death was about 16years old at the time. So, the first couple of times he bought it, he might have needed a note from his mom. But, after that, no problem!

Still, here has always been a problem with buying cyanide. Even in those long ago, and more enlightened times.

Sellers have always been a little reluctant to part with Cyanide. Mostly, they want to make damned sure, that you know how to use it without hurting yourself or others.

It isn't a big money maker, and the potential legal problems are huge.

Would you be enthusiastic, about selling 4oz of NaCN to a complete stranger, for the small sum of $5.00 ?