Sciencemadness Discussion Board

stump remover

ueki - 28-5-2008 at 18:06

I've read many times from people that stump remover if mainly KNO3, but I cannot find a brand of stump remover.

Can anyone tell me any brand names of stump removers?

JohnWW - 28-5-2008 at 20:22

Oh, you could use any similar high explosives, e.g. NH4NO3, Ca(NO3)2, NH4ClO4, TNT, etc.

12AX7 - 28-5-2008 at 21:15

John, KNO3 isn't even a component in any high explosives.

I know Bonide is one brand to avoid: it is sodium metabisulfite, which dissolves lignin as advertized but sure as hell isn't KNO3. Now if you want a reducing agent, it's good for that.

Tim

not_important - 28-5-2008 at 21:59

Quote:
Originally posted by ueki
Can anyone tell me any brand names of stump removers?


This is really going to depend on what country you are in, or which region of the US or Canada.

Dilligaf - 29-5-2008 at 20:29

In the USA Gordon Stump remover, about $8 per pound. It's 99% potassium nitrate 1% Calcium Stearate

MagicJigPipe - 30-5-2008 at 06:16

If you are in the US you can find KNO3 in many drugstores that is way more pure than stump remover. The worst I have found is technical grade and the best is USP. The technical grade is about $4 a pound, though. It's expensive but if you need the purity (and only need a little bit) it's the way to go. Otherwise, it can be found on the internet in about 5 seconds for really cheap.

I have never used stump remover for two reasons. Because it's impure and it doesn't exist in my area. I'm pretty sure it's being phased out and I'd be willing to bet you will have a hard time finding it in most areas of the US.

-jeffB - 30-5-2008 at 08:24

Quote:
Originally posted by MagicJigPipe
If you are in the US you can find KNO3 in many drugstores that is way more pure than stump remover.


Really? In my part of the US (urban North Carolina), it's long since disappeared. I looked for some a year or two ago to treat a sensitive tooth, and nobody will touch it any more.

MagicJigPipe - 30-5-2008 at 16:52

There is a drugstore around here that is willing to order as much as I want. One time I ordered 20 8oz bottles of it with no questions asked.

I sympathize for your situation, though, as I am in the same boat with just about every other useful chemical.

Oh, yeah, it's called "Saltpeter". If I asked for "potassium nitrate" they would probably be too dumb to realize what I was talking about even though it says, "potassium nitrate/ KNO3" on the label.

Bottom of this page:
http://www.homechemistry.org/index.php?title=Potassium_nitra...

Is some I found at a USA Drug in my area.

Hydroponics

MadHatter - 30-5-2008 at 17:17

Try a hydroponics supplier. I found KNO3 through one before they discontinued it.
Some may still carry it. That same supplier still has calcium nitrate though. Easy enough
to get KNO3 by metathesis with KCl or K2SO4 but I can find all 3 of those locally(USA).

As for purity, fractional crystallization using distilled water, despite the source of KNO3,
should yield a relatively pure product.

ueki - 30-5-2008 at 18:39

thanks guys :)

ADP - 31-5-2008 at 08:31

Spectracide is carried at walmart which I'm pretty sure is 99% KNO3

S.C. Wack - 31-5-2008 at 11:05

www.hi-yield.com

PETERCPA - 31-5-2008 at 16:02

Quote:
Originally posted by ADP
Spectracide is carried at walmart which I'm pretty sure is 99% KNO3


Anyone who is looking for KNO3 should try the web. There is always plenty there for $2 to $5 a pound. Looking right now, I see 5lbs for 12.95, 1 lb cans for $4, 50 lb bags for $60. The shipping is expensive often as much. Looks like the best deal is 5 lbs for $25 which includes the shipping. When my 10 yr son wanted to make a sugar/saltpeter smoke mixture like they did in school, I went to the local garden supply store. They were out but ordered me a bag which came in 1 week. It was $32 for 50 lbs of fertilizer grade kno3. It works fine but it is a little acidic. A recrystalization cleans it up jut fine. If you are having trouble sourcing KNO3, work harder at it. Get more imaginative. A lot of home chemistry is finding OTC substitutes. Also, try to find an old style full service hardware store. Every town had one before Home Depot. That's where you'll find the stump remover, sulfuric acid, MEK, ethanol, 35% H2O2 wood bleach and all the rest of the interesting stuff

MagicJigPipe - 31-5-2008 at 16:36

Actually, those are really the only stores I go to and I can say, without a doubt, that there is probably no KNO3 stump remover in my area. It has been replaced with copper sulfate pentahydrate. I have been almost everywhere. I remember I did find one once that had KNO3 in it but was contaminated with 50% of something else. Still, noone in the US should have any problem, whatsoever, obtaining KNO3 as of now. Later it will surely become more difficult but now it's easy.

As for MEK and denatured EtOH (it's not available non-denatured in the US except for liquor), both of those are available at the chain stores.

You are right about the H2SO4 and 25-30% H2O2, these are only available at the "old timey, independent" hardware stores. Honestly, the ONLY thing I would use drain cleaner H2SO4 for is distillations. I'm currently working on a new way to distill it so that I will continue to have a cheap source of pure H2SO4 once the battery acid source disappears.

I don't know what I'm going to do once the drain cleaner disappears... Guess I'll have to resort to the more difficult methods of H2SO4 synthesis.

[Edited on 5-31-2008 by MagicJigPipe]

ueki - 31-5-2008 at 20:32

Thanks ADP, nest time Im at wal-mart, ill look for spectracide, and I'll keep the old hardware store suggestion in mind.

LSD25 - 1-6-2008 at 19:46

Quote:
Originally posted by Dilligaf
In the USA Gordon Stump remover, about $8 per pound. It's 99% potassium nitrate 1% Calcium Stearate


Hmmmm, so do you listen to Australian music/comedy at all?;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxmUKVrT0iI

"Do I Look Like I Give A Fuck":P

Nice to see Orstralian spreading, soon ve vill own ze vorld, oops, sorry that is Ostrian id'nit?:D

PS Sorry to go off topic, but that is funny as fuck

YT2095 - 2-6-2008 at 01:22

a strange but On Topic question, but How does stump remover actually work?

I have a tree stump in the back yard that needs removing, it`s against a brick wall and surrounded by paving slabs, so wrapping a chain around it and pulling it out with a car is out the question!

I have some KNO3 and could easily make more if need be, but how does it actually Work and would Ammonium Nitrate do the same thing?

I ask about AN because I can get that all day long for pocket change, and it would save me having to convert it.

if the stump was larger and in the shade I`d buy a Mushroom kit and ignore it.

edit: would it be possible to cut to the chase and use Nitric Acid on it directly?


[Edited on 2-6-2008 by YT2095]

-jeffB - 2-6-2008 at 07:15

Quote:
Originally posted by YT2095
a strange but On Topic question, but How does stump remover actually work?

I have a tree stump in the back yard that needs removing, it`s against a brick wall and surrounded by paving slabs, so wrapping a chain around it and pulling it out with a car is out the question!

I have some KNO3 and could easily make more if need be, but how does it actually Work and would Ammonium Nitrate do the same thing?

I ask about AN because I can get that all day long for pocket change, and it would save me having to convert it.

if the stump was larger and in the shade I`d buy a Mushroom kit and ignore it.

edit: would it be possible to cut to the chase and use Nitric Acid on it directly?


[Edited on 2-6-2008 by YT2095]


Patience will be your friend.

http://www.lsuagcenter.com/en/environment/forestry/urban_for...
Quote:
During the first year following tree removal, the organisms that decay the wood tend to be nitrogen-limited. That means that the addition of fertilizer during the first year, especially a high nitrogen fertilizer, will hasten decay.

Dilligaf - 2-6-2008 at 09:15

LSD25
If you hang around biker clubs much you will see DILLIGAF patches on vests, I don't know where it originated but it's been around a long time. . I was sorry to see when getting back in the chemistry hobby after a long absence I could get "hassled by the man" for possessing simple chemicals the same as being a motorcycle club member can get me stopped because a big club patch on my back makes me "suspicious" . I find it humorous in a way that having a home laboratory classifed me as a nerd as a kid and now practically makes me a potential terrorist 40 years later. . My attitude with this insanity is FTW and Dilligaf fits well, I'll do what I want within reason.
Funny video BTW

YT2095 - 3-6-2008 at 00:58

Quote:
Originally posted by -jeffB


Patience will be your friend.

http://www.lsuagcenter.com/en/environment/forestry/urban_for...

Quote:
During the first year following tree removal, the organisms that decay the wood tend to be nitrogen-limited. That means that the addition of fertilizer during the first year, especially a high nitrogen fertilizer, will hasten decay.


fantastic, thanks!
I`ll use AN in that case, it`s cheaper ;)

stateofhack - 17-6-2008 at 03:29

In Europe it can be bought nearly all round in most big shops!

Its a big white can with a yellow lid!

YT2095 - 17-6-2008 at 03:54

I obviously don`t go to the right shops then, it`s not a problem though as it`s only a single trunk/stump and a big Can of the stuff would be a waste unless it`s safe for Chilis or Tomato plants?

The_Davster - 17-6-2008 at 15:44

No longer available in Canada in stump remover products. I think it was taken off shelves around a year ago or so ago?

[Edited on 17-6-2008 by The_Davster]