Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Making Ammonium Chloride

artemov - 2-11-2018 at 01:30

Trying to make some ammonium chloride using the following method ... just wondering if it's viable.

1) Baker's ammonia (ammonium carbonate or ammonium bicarbonate)

2) Stains remover (Ingredients: Hydrochloric Acid, Degreaser, Wetting Agent and Water)

Dissolve 1 in a small amount of water in a beaker.
Place it in a container with another beaker filled with 2.
Cover the container with cling wrap ... wait for a few days or weeks ...

fusso - 2-11-2018 at 01:57

Why you think it need days to complete? Acid base rxns are pretty fast and only need minutes if not hours.

Ubya - 2-11-2018 at 02:23

it is viable but if you don't calculate the mass of ammonium carbonate or the acid volume you wont get anything "pure", just a random mixture of ammonium chloride and acid or ammonium carbonate

Sulaiman - 2-11-2018 at 02:28

I would expect ammonium chloride to be formed immediately,
but I guess that the high solubility of ammonium chloride will make it difficult to isolate.


EDIT: sorry, I was careless ...see below.

[Edited on 2-11-2018 by Sulaiman]

unionised - 2-11-2018 at 02:43

I think some people have replied without reading the OP.
He never says to mix the materials.

I assume he's expecting evaporation to move one component to the other.
However, in solution, all the "ingredients" H2O, CO2, HCl and NH3 are volatile so it's not clear what would happen. Would the NH3 move to the acid, or vice versa, or both?

If you add a slight excess of HCl to the ammonium carbonate, then let the water evaporate you will get ammonium chloride.
You can tten remove the impurities by recrystallisation or subliming it.

BTW, would someone please report the spam that's cluttering the forum. The automatic system will then clear it away (It does that if enough people report it)
Don't write a reply, just click on the (most often read) post from a spammer, then click on report. Put the word "spam" in the box that pops up + click on report.

It's really very satisfying when you do that and the spam goes away.



[Edited on 2-11-18 by unionised]

artemov - 2-11-2018 at 02:52

The stains remover is extremely impure ... so I din want to mix them together; I wouldn't know how to extract the ammonium chloride.

I was hoping the HCl will move over and dissolve in the ammonium carbonate solution and react with it ... I have read about this technique somewhere here on making pure HCl, albeit less concentrated, from impure HCl.
H2O and CO2 I dun really care ... but I'm unaware NH3 will "come off" from ammonium carbonate, or does ammonium chloride gives off NH3?

I have no access to clean HCl yet unfortunately ...

[Edited on 2-11-2018 by artemov]

fusso - 2-11-2018 at 03:07

Quote: Originally posted by artemov  
The stains remover is extremely impure ... so I din want to mix them together; I wouldn't know how to extract the ammonium chloride.

I was hoping the HCl will move over and dissolve in the ammonium carbonate solution and react with it ... I have read about this technique somewhere here on making pure HCl, albeit less concentrated, from impure HCl.
H2O and CO2 I dun really care ... but I'm unaware NH3 will "come off" from ammonium carbonate, or does ammonium chloride gives off NH3?

I have no access to clean HCl yet unfortunately ...

[Edited on 2-11-2018 by artemov]
Not even plain NH4Cl?
(But spams are unlikely to go away even you reported them and thats extremely disappointing)

unionised - 2-11-2018 at 03:08

Quote: Originally posted by fusso  

(But spams are unlikely to go away even you reported them and thats extremely disappointing)


Did you try?
You have to do it often enough that the system learns that your viewpoint is trustworthy.

fusso - 2-11-2018 at 03:18

Quote: Originally posted by unionised  
Quote: Originally posted by fusso  

(But spams are unlikely to go away even you reported them and thats extremely disappointing)


Did you try?
You have to do it often enough that the system learns that your viewpoint is trustworthy.
Yes. But does reporting a spam >1 time make it go away sooner?

artemov - 2-11-2018 at 03:36

Oh wait ... would sodium chloride and Baker's ammonia work too?

unionised - 2-11-2018 at 04:40

Quote: Originally posted by artemov  
Oh wait ... would sodium chloride and Baker's ammonia work too?

No, there's no way to get rid of the sodium ions.

artemov - 2-11-2018 at 04:44

Quote: Originally posted by unionised  
Quote: Originally posted by artemov  
Oh wait ... would sodium chloride and Baker's ammonia work too?

No, there's no way to get rid of the sodium ions.


Arghhhh ....

WGTR - 2-11-2018 at 06:39

Ammonium chloride is reasonably volatile at elevated temperatures. You could try grinding dry ammonium sulfate (etc) together with sodium chloride, and then try heating it in a beaker. A round bottom flask on top of the beaker, full of ice water, might work as a condenser. Just an idea.

MrHomeScientist - 2-11-2018 at 06:45

Good idea though, to eliminate contamination from your HCl source. The vapors should travel over and absorb into the less concentrated solution #1 to form your desired product. Separating it from leftover carbonate sounds pretty straightforward, actually. Ammonium carbonate decomposes in hot water (~60C) to ammonia and carbon dioxide, both of which are gases that will escape. You'd be left with a pure solution of ammonium chloride after the bubbling stops.

For bonus points, you could lead the ammonia back into your container with your HCl source. It will react with the HCl vapor to form a smoke of more ammonium chloride! Collecting that in any meaningful quantity might be difficult, though.

hissingnoise - 2-11-2018 at 07:42

Quote: Originally posted by WGTR  
Ammonium chloride is reasonably volatile at elevated temperatures. You could try grinding dry ammonium sulfate (etc) together with sodium chloride, and then try heating it in a beaker. A round bottom flask on top of the beaker, full of ice water, might work as a condenser. Just an idea.

Metathesis yes, I have prepared NH4Cl by heating mixtures of NaCl and NH4NO3.

I collected the sublimate on a large inverted funnel...but any suitable cold surface will suffice.

The other product was NaNO3.

artemov - 2-11-2018 at 15:02

Great ideas guys... inspired by WGTR, what about CaCl2 and (NH4)2SO4? CaSO4 would be insoluble in water.

[Edited on 2-11-2018 by artemov]

fusso - 2-11-2018 at 15:06

Is NH4Cl actually unavailable/banned in your country?

GrayGhost- - 2-11-2018 at 15:27


1)
(NH4)2SO4 + 2 NaCl = 2 NH4Cl + Na2SO4 (freeze out the Na2SO4.10H2O)

2)(NH4)2SO4 + Ca(OH)2 = 2NH3 + 2H2O + CaSO4 you should bubling the ammonia in ClH solution.

3)(NH4)2SO4 + CaCl2 = 2NH4Cl + CaSO4. Calcium sulfate ( gypsum) precipitate.

GrayGhost- - 2-11-2018 at 15:32

I preparate Ammonium hydroxide from Ammonium bicarbonate + calcium hydroxide, but solution i very weak only 1% concentrate, I take density.

And voila in find in my bunch of salts Ammonium Chloride, then mix with Calcium hydroxide, warm and obtain ammonium hydroxide 7,7% according density. In my country is controled substance.

artemov - 2-11-2018 at 15:39

Fusso, probably not banned or controlled like ammonium nitrate or GBL, but certainly not easily available to your average lay consumers. Most chemicals are not easily available here, unless it has common or household usage, for example methanol or calcium chloride. The chemical companies here won't sell to individuals, you can't just call and order CS2 or mercury nitrate.

beerwiz - 13-11-2018 at 22:28

The EASIEST and BEST WAY to make Ammonium Chloride (I do this all the time):

Get a gallon of 10% ammonia from the hardware store, it costs less than $3
Get a gallon of muriatic acid (HCl) from the hardware store. It could be anywhere from 31%-35%.

Fill a large pot with the ammonia then slowly add the HCl, if you add it too fast the solution will heat up to a boil. The idea is to neutralize the ammonia with the HCl, you can go down to pH 5 or so. Then you can evaporate the whole solution on your gas stove to dryness, stop when it is almost dry so you don't burn it. Let it cool to room temperature and dry.
Voila, you have Ammonium Chloride in bulk.

artemov - 13-11-2018 at 22:32

Quote: Originally posted by beerwiz  
The EASIEST and BEST WAY to make Ammonium Chloride (I do this all the time):
Get a gallon of muriatic acid (HCl) from the hardware store. It could be anywhere from 31%-35%.


Thanks, but no muriatic acid here. Only mosaic cleaner of unknown HCl concentration and lotsa additives.

[Edited on 14-11-2018 by artemov]

beerwiz - 13-11-2018 at 23:24

If you can't buy muriatic acid where you are, then you can make HCl gas and gas your ammonia solution with it using a tube going into it. This will make ammonium chloride after it's neutralized but it will remain in solution so just boil all the water off on your gas stove and you are done.

You can make HCl gas in many ways, some ways are:

1. Muriatic acid (can be impure like what you have) dripped over sulfuric acid.
2. Sulfuric acid dripped over table salt.
2. Table salt mixed with sodium bisulfate and heated.
4. Muriatic acid boiled. (you can boil your impure muratic acid solution, will work).

artemov - 14-11-2018 at 03:44

Thanks, but I think calcium chloride (dessicant) and ammonium sulphate (fertilizer) would the most practical route for me as I can get both here easily. Sulphuric acid is out too ...

I can get ammonia cleaner (5%?) and sodium bisulphate (pool chemical) though ... cheers!

[Edited on 14-11-2018 by artemov]

ave369 - 14-11-2018 at 03:55

It is reasonably easy to make HCl by distilling a mix of table salt and fresh battery acid. Azeotropic 20% HCl will distill over. Mix this acid with ammonia, then boil and crystallize. This is my standard method of making NH4Cl.