BromicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 3245
Registered: 13-7-2003
Location: Wisconsin
Member Is Offline
Mood: Rock n' Roll
|
|
Base Metals are on the Rise, Got a Furnace? Cash in now!
Being a chemist I've always had a fascination with all sorts of metals. Which means I've been paying attention to the price of nickel shooting up,
up, and up. Currently it sits at $21.57/Pound which is getting somewhat impressive. The point being, I decided to search around eBay to see what
nickel metal was selling for and found that there is one seller putting up base metal bullion that they are making by hand and it is selling for
astronomical prices. For example:
250 Gram Nickel Bar
This nickel bar with a value of $5 or $6 is selling for $102 at the moment. I mean, there is intrinsic difficulty in melting the metal and forming
it, etc. But that is just incredible.
The same seller also offers copper bars, aluminum bars, brass bars, etc. And they seem to sell fairly consistently at high premiums (especially the
copper, nickel appears to be new option for them) vs. the actual cost of the metal. I just figured that our more inclined members with metal melting
capabilities might find this an interesting opportunity to flood the market.
|
|
|
Pyridinium
Hazard to Others
Posts: 258
Registered: 18-5-2005
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: cupric
|
|
Interesting... I'm going to have to do some reading on nickel casting, am wondering what kind of mould metal is preferred for making nickel ingots.
I don't think my little kiln can do a sustained 1550 C though, unless I feed an O2 stream into it... not that I want to burn up all that nice
firebrick-and-refractory-mortar work just yet....
EDIT: there is of course the possibility of slowly feeding increased O2 into the stream for, say, a 30%-40% total concentration. That would be a
little less gonzo than a pure stream of O2. I'm sure others, including you, have brought up this possiblity on the forums, but I have this cramp in
my arm which at the moment prevents use of the 'search' function 
I need to dig out a "Y" connector. My regulator and hosing are the cheapest Chinese variety- the regulator isn't actually bad, but the hosing failed
in about 2 months.
[Edited on 21-3-2007 by Pyridinium]
|
|
|
Mr. Wizard
International Hazard
Posts: 1042
Registered: 30-3-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
How long the US 5 cent coin, known as a "Nickel' will remain in circulation? It weighs 5 grams and is 75% Cu and 25% Ni. 91 coins make about a pound
(455 grams). Which is worth $4.55 face value. At $3 a pound for copper that is $2.25 in copper and at $21 a pound for Nickel that's $5.25 for a total
of $7.50 from $4.55 or about 1.65 times face value. I think it's the only real money any government makes.
|
|
|
pantone159
National Hazard
Posts: 590
Registered: 27-6-2006
Location: Austin, TX, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: desperate for shade
|
|
I have read that both the US 1 cent (Zn) and 5 cent (Ni/Cu) now have metal value in excess of face value, although I haven't done the calculations
myself.
|
|
|
Levi
Hazard to Others
Posts: 196
Registered: 24-1-2007
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by pantone159
I have read that both the US 1 cent (Zn) and 5 cent (Ni/Cu) now have metal value in excess of face value, although I haven't done the calculations
myself. |
Yeah, but the $100 bills are made of paper so it evens out
Chemcrime does not entail death. Chemcrime is death.
|
|
|
12AX7
Post Harlot
Posts: 4803
Registered: 8-3-2005
Location: oscillating
Member Is Offline
Mood: informative
|
|
Yeah, that happened a few months ago. Accordingly, Congress passed a law making it once again illegal to melt money. (Vis. 1960s when silver was
removed from circulation and 1982 when cents were switched to zinc.)
Tim
|
|
|
Fleaker
International Hazard
Posts: 1252
Registered: 19-6-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: nucleophilic
|
|
Well I'm still melting copper 
I got a good bit of nickel, 3 pounds perhaps, last year for free from this big plating place on Nickel Plate Avenue (literally that was the name). I
should go hit them up for some more freebies. Melting nickel shouldn't be too hard with a proper propane furnace.
Neither flask nor beaker.
"Kid, you don't even know just what you don't know. "
--The Dark Lord Sauron
|
|
|
12AX7
Post Harlot
Posts: 4803
Registered: 8-3-2005
Location: oscillating
Member Is Offline
Mood: informative
|
|
Are those the botrydial masses like T. Gray has? Gimme!!
|
|
|
Pyridinium
Hazard to Others
Posts: 258
Registered: 18-5-2005
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: cupric
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Fleaker
Melting nickel shouldn't be too hard with a proper propane furnace. |
True, I just like to do things as "caveman" as possible because it's a challenge, so for me it's a charcoal furnace. Including making the charcoal
myself. Either way, you can melt nickel if you get the setup right.
It's a pity there's still snow on the ground... the kiln is getting lonely.
|
|
|
BromicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 3245
Registered: 13-7-2003
Location: Wisconsin
Member Is Offline
Mood: Rock n' Roll
|
|
Didn't Canada also recently make it illegal to melt down their currency? Partially because their pre 1982 nickels are supposedly 99% nickel and hence
$100 in nickels is worth over $400 in melt now.
12AX7, the new law is somewhat more restrictive than the old law, it also says you can't take something like $10 in pocket change out of the country
or export more than $100 in coins at the same time. But I think they mostly passed it to remind people that it is illegal since melting down currency
is still defacing it and hence already illegal.
Looking forward to seeing some new base metal bullion sellers on eBay 
|
|
|
Levi
Hazard to Others
Posts: 196
Registered: 24-1-2007
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I wonder if it's illegal to melt down Canadian coins if you're in the US when you do it? I happen to live about 2 miles from the Canadian border and
I have more of their currency kicking around than I care to. There's no need to smuggle them across the border since the Canadians come over here to
get drunk and bring their funny money with them to annoy the bartenders. I bet I could find 25-100 pre-1982 nickels without trying too hard.
Chemcrime does not entail death. Chemcrime is death.
|
|
|
The_Davster
A pnictogen
Posts: 2861
Registered: 18-11-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: .
|
|
Hehe....I have a small sack/pile of pre 1982 nickels
EDIT:
So I went through my loose change sack, out of a couple hundred nickels I found 8 pre 1982. I also separated out my pre 1997 pennies because they are
pure copper, I got several dozen. Even found a single 1958 dime, which is made of part silver.
Then I remembered I had another sack of change, from 2003 or so. In there I got a few dozen Ni nickels and a hundred or so pure copper pennies. It
appears the valuable currency is being removed from circulation actively. Collect now!
Is not the increase in metal prices a good measure of inflation?
[Edited on 22-3-2007 by The_Davster]
|
|
|
Magpie
lab constructor
Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.
|
|
I tried to buy a nickel rod from a major metal vendor awhile back. They would not sell it to me. They sold many other metals and exotic metal
compounds and probably had a blanket policy against individual sales...prevents drug making and terrorism you know.
I recently needed some nickel to make nickel nitrate to verify the activity of my dimethylgyoxime. Fortunately I had two pre-1982 Canadian nickels.
So I took a cold chisel to one of them as I only needed 1 gram. The DMG-nickel complex worked well btw, yielding a beautiful rose red precipitate.
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
|
|
|
The_Davster
A pnictogen
Posts: 2861
Registered: 18-11-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: .
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Magpie
..prevents drug making and terrorism you know.
|
No need to be sarcastic...if the rod is big enough its a weapon Gotta keep
those dangerous weapons out of the hands of people.
/sarcasm
[Edited on 22-3-2007 by The_Davster]
|
|
|
Ozone
International Hazard
Posts: 1269
Registered: 28-7-2005
Location: Good Olde USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Integrated
|
|
Yup! The Canadian nickels are still magnetic! Ours suck . Looks like we could really
clean up with Zn on cents! Whoa...What a philosophical bitch. Dropping the gold standard used to equal paper money to paper tigers, but it looks like
the Ni and Zn standard might pick it up.
Save the economy, melt the currency (it is a Capitolist society, after all).
Whoo (R2D2),
O3
-Anyone who never made a mistake never tried anything new.
--Albert Einstein
|
|
|
The_Davster
A pnictogen
Posts: 2861
Registered: 18-11-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: .
|
|
well 1997-1999 have a lot of zinc still, worth hanging onto currently, but the ammount of metal is still worth less than a cent.
Why is it that the powers that be want to keep our currency a fiat one?
Metal hoarding time
|
|
|
zoomer
Hazard to Self
Posts: 66
Registered: 22-3-2005
Location: Watching the sun set over the saguaros
Member Is Offline
Mood: Always Curious
|
|
How much does the energy cost to melt and refine a pound of pennies or nickels?
z
|
|
|
BromicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 3245
Registered: 13-7-2003
Location: Wisconsin
Member Is Offline
Mood: Rock n' Roll
|
|
Speaking of melting down currency (which is not what I am advocating), this seller has been putting up lots of $100 in Canadian nickels, approximately
$444 in melt at this time, their auction is kind of interesting:
$100 in Canadian Nickels Pre 1982
|
|
|
12AX7
Post Harlot
Posts: 4803
Registered: 8-3-2005
Location: oscillating
Member Is Offline
Mood: informative
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by BromicAcid
But I think they mostly passed it to remind people that it is illegal since melting down currency is still defacing it and hence already illegal.
|
No, defacing money (the paper stuff) is criminal because it's all legal documents ("legal tender" is printed on it). Defacing currency, in this
country, is legal, outside of such laws as at present. This is in contrast to other countries where you do not in fact own your money.
Tim
|
|
|
Waffles
Hazard to Others
Posts: 196
Registered: 1-10-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by 12AX7
Are those the botrydial masses like T. Gray has? Gimme!!
|
Actually, I have plenty (read: pounds) from the same company (I convinced Theo to go back there, buy and bunch, and send me a bunch for my collection
heh).
U2U if you're interested.
\"…\'tis man\'s perdition to be safe, when for the truth he ought to die.\"
|
|
|
vulture
Forum Gatekeeper
Posts: 3330
Registered: 25-5-2002
Location: France
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
How on earth is anyone going to prove you melted currency to make your nickel bars? The analysis will cost more than the bar's worth.
[Edited on 25-3-2007 by vulture]
One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
|
|
|
BromicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 3245
Registered: 13-7-2003
Location: Wisconsin
Member Is Offline
Mood: Rock n' Roll
|
|
I don't think that anyone would go through the trouble to prove it. More likely they would notice simply if you started hording the currency to some
noticeable level.
|
|
|
unionised
International Hazard
Posts: 5126
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Looks like a nice sideline for the casinos and whoever else runs slot machines.
|
|
|
pantone159
National Hazard
Posts: 590
Registered: 27-6-2006
Location: Austin, TX, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: desperate for shade
|
|
Canadian nickel
Canadian coins, I just discovered, are indeed a nice source of nickel.
What you want, though, is mostly the 10 and 25 cent coins, these are 0.999 Ni for all dates before 2000. The 50 cent is nickel for 2000 as well, but
all later dates are just nickel plated steel. The exceptions are for very old coins that have silver. Year 1999 is still pretty recent, so these
should be easy to find , and 0.999 fine is quite good.
(However: See Theodore Gray's analysis of some Canadian coinage... http://www.theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/Elements/028/#samp...)
Note: 1968 dates for 10 and 25 cent may contain Ag and Cu and no Ni at all, or may be all Ni, depends. You might be able to distinguish them by
weight, I don't know. Earlier than 1968 are Ag/Cu, no Ni at all. Better use 1969-1999 to make sure you have Ni.
For quarters, the current spot price is about 'face' value interpreted in US dollars, e.g. 25 US cents Ni value per Canadian 25 cent piece.
Nickels are more complicated, most 1981 and earlier are also 0.999 Ni, but 1951-1954 and 1942-1945 had other compositions. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_(Canadian_coin)
Canada even minted a 1951 commemorative 5 cent 'nickel' that commemorated the 200th anniversary of its discovery, made of 0.999 Ni.
P.S. Canadian cents (1996 and earlier) are 98% Cu, better than the old US copper cents which are only 95% Cu, and have to be 1981 or older and so are
uncommon.
P.P.S. Canadian gold bullion coins are much purer than US bullion, the Canadian stuff is 0.9999 Au, while most US bullion is 0.92 or so Au, the same
composition that was used in circulating coins back then.
I just learned this (about the Ni anyways) just a few days ago, I'm excited to have just discovered a cool source of nickel for my element collection!
[Edited on 3-4-2007 by pantone159]
[Edited on 4-4-2007 by pantone159]
|
|
|
Magpie
lab constructor
Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.
|
|
Thanks pantone! My stock of reagent grade nickel just took giant surge. I was wondering what I was going to do with all the change left from visits
to Canada.
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
