12AX7
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Ethylate some amine (namely, ammonia) then add acid and remove the salt.
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Levi
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Sounds like an energetic precursor  Does this material have any interesting
properties or is it fairly inert?
Chemcrime does not entail death. Chemcrime is death.
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Levi
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My organic chem knowlege is limited, is this triethlyamine?
Chemcrime does not entail death. Chemcrime is death.
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Chris The Great
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NEt3 is triethylamine, Et being an ethyl group (-CH2-CH3). It's a nice, useful organic base that is not horribly toxic/smelly like pyridine for
example.
[Edited on 3-2-2007 by Chris The Great]
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chemrox
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what is Levi's compound called? With or without the methyl groups.
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Nicodem
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2,4,6-trimethyl-s-triazine with methyls and s-triazine without methyls.
PS: I don't think the original question of the thread was serious. I doub't anybody would ask something so absurd like how to prepare triethylamine
hydrochloride.
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LoKi
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Thats funny, I was just pondering how to make triethylamine myself. Wouldn't it be possible with EtI and NH3? Nicoderm, why is such a question
absurd?
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not_important
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It's a bit silly of a question because it's a pretty simple and basic preparation, appears early on in organic chemistry books at the beginning of the
chapter on amines.
You can make it through reacting ammonia with ethyl iodide (or Br or Cl). You won't get really high yields because you get a mix of EtH3NI, Et2H2NI,
Et3HNI, and Et4NI; although you can shift which compound is the main product. Add base to free the primary, secondary, and tertiary amines,
fractionate them. The primary and secondary amines can be treated with more EtI, the quaternary salt can be converted to the tertiary amine via
Hofmann style elimination.
You can also make the ethyl amines by passing a mixture of ammonia and ethanol vapours over heated catalysts.
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/4683336-description.html
Once again you get a mix, fractionation lets you get the amine(s) you want, unwanted ones with too few or too many alkyl groups can be recycled
through the reaction tube to increase yields of the desired amine.
The catalyst can be prepared by dissolving 'nickel' coins in an acid, nitric is best, and pouring the solution of copper and nickel salts into an
excess of a solution of sodium or ammonium carbonate or bicarbonate.
Messy routes, but simple - 1st quarter org chem stuff.
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garage chemist
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Not totally on topic, but related:
Is it possible to remove primary and secondary amines from a tertiary amine by adding an acylating agent (preferably high- boiling, like benzoyl
chloride) which should form an amide with the primary and secondary amine but leave the tertiary amine alone? It seems like distillation from benzoyl
chloride could be a good method to free triethylamine from those impurities arising from its production (ater fractional distillation, of course).
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not_important
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That's a not uncommon procedure, except if you use an acyl halide you need to remove the HCl formed with a strong base, else some of the R3N gets
trapped as the salt.
For the lighter amines you can also go the route of treating with with the acylating agent, one that is fairly large and hydrophobic in nature, and
extract with aqueous acid to remove the free tertiary amine as a salt. (might also add an organic solvent to keep the amides in a liquid form for
easier and better extraction).
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Sauron
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There's an Org/Syn. procedure for making triethylamine hydrochloride free from ethylamine and diethylamine.
Ethylating ammonia will always get you a mixture; also ethylating diethylamine to the tertiary amine is difficult because of steric hindrance and
requires forcing conditions.
So, @Levi, it is not a sumd question. There's a whole thread about DEIA which is closely related and I don't think anyone has yet advanced a good prep
for that one.
Normally, since TEA free amine is a common H-scavenger, we "make" triethylamine hydrochloride all the time from that. Normally we just throw it away.
TEA being cheap (I have maybe 20 L on hand) it doesn't pay to recycle the hydrochloride back to the free amine.
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Nicodem
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| Quote: | Originally posted by LoKi
Thats funny, I was just pondering how to make triethylamine myself. Wouldn't it be possible with EtI and NH3? Nicoderm, why is such a question
absurd? |
I was referring to the absurdness of asking about triethylamine hydrochloride preparation (the question put by the thread originator) and not about
the preparation of triethylamine as you infer. Triethylamine hydrochloride is not that very hygroscopic to be much of a problem to prepare, so the
question is nearly as silly as if someone would be asking how to prepare NaCl from NaOH. As far as preparing triethylamine you would have to be some
kind of a freak to be wanting to prepare it given the cheapness and availability. The reagents required are nearly all more expensive than Et3N
itself.
PS: My screen name is not Nicoderm!
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S.C. Wack
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JACS article from Calcutta, er, Kolkata.
Attachment: 35_1781_1913.pdf (211kB)
This file has been downloaded 1252 times
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Sauron
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Many many times on this forum I have seen people asking for preps of common, unregulated and simple compounds. Apparently what is easy to buy in one
locale may not be easy to buy in another. Or else the fellow wants to make his own for his own reasons. <shrug>
I assume that he does NOT want to know how to acidify TEA under anhydrous conditions, that is trivial. The equivalent of a cook asking how to boil
water.
I suppose he wants to build the TEA in an unequivocal fashion and then acidify it, he did say he wants pure triethylamine hydrochloride. Even if he
had TEA sitting on the shelf that would mean distilling it before bubbling in dry HCl in an inert solvent.
Anyway I'd cut the guy some slack. At least he didn't ask for a meth recipe.
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LoKi
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Apologies for the misunderstanding, NICODEM. Must have been craving a cigarette at the time.
\"They who can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.\"
-- Benjamin Franklin
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