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gammainspector
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Detection and Identification of Radioactive Materials
After a few months of lurking, it is time for me to appear from the shadows.
I operate a small laboratory in the US that detects and identifies radioactive materials.
Most of the time we are inspecting soil, filters, water, etc. People also send us materials to test and identify including samples of ore or mining
byproducts, trinitite, etc.
I've included a few pictures of some of the equipment used in the lab and would be happy to go into more detail for members that aren't as familiar
with them.
I've seen a few members ask questions about different types of detectors and their uses, I'd be more than happy to share about that as well.
I have designed and assembled a few custom probes for different purposes.
In the photos you will see some of the equipment we use the most. Multichannel analyzers, Spectrometers, Single Channel Analyzers, Scalers, and more.
In the probe pictures you will see a variety of 2x2 NaI probes, low energy probes, probes designed for analyzing enrichment of fuel rods, etc.
Good to meet you all, I look forward to discussion of radiodetection and identification.
   
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j_sum1
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gammainspector, meet neptunium
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=27963
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gammainspector
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Actually, neptunium is the reason that I joined this forum. I had seen some of his posts, and oddly enough he only lives an hour or so from me. I'm
heading to Chernobyl in 3 weeks, but after I get back I was going to invite him over.
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j_sum1
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Chernobyl!
Interesting. Have some fun. Stay safe.
You might find common ground with careysub too. But I guess you already worked that out.
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gammainspector
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Oh I will have fun, and I'll have lots of interesting things to report. I will be taking lots of equipment with me.
I have seen careysub posts here and there, he is definitely one that I think has similar interests as mine.
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careysub
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I have some radioactive minerals but have not done anything with them yet, since I have no radiation detector.
I have been looking at Ludlum Model 3 with the pancake probe on eBay for about $500, with the intent of also getting an NaI/Tl probe, which have
appeared (rebuilt) for around $200.
I would rather put all my "radiation detector" money into purchasing one versatile tool for monitoring, assaying and field surveying, as economically
as I can. I plan on making a southwest uranium mineral collecting trek in a couple of years and I want a tool that would be well suited to that.
Any advice would be appreciated.
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Praxichys
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Quote: Originally posted by gammainspector  | | Actually, neptunium is the reason that I joined this forum. I had seen some of his posts, and oddly enough he only lives an hour or so from me. I'm
heading to Chernobyl in 3 weeks, but after I get back I was going to invite him over. |
Wow, I've met Neptunium in person. We're also less than an hour apart.
Also, welcome aboard!
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neptunium
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Chernobyl! wow it might be difficult to bring "souvenir" samples... how does one go about setting up a trip like that? Ukraine is not the typical
vacation destination right now..
by the way did you figure out the wiring on the Bicron 1.5M ? its a good probe
[Edited on 15-8-2015 by neptunium]
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gammainspector
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| Quote: Originally posted by careysub | I have some radioactive minerals but have not done anything with them yet, since I have no radiation detector.
I have been looking at Ludlum Model 3 with the pancake probe on eBay for about $500, with the intent of also getting an NaI/Tl probe, which have
appeared (rebuilt) for around $200.
I would rather put all my "radiation detector" money into purchasing one versatile tool for monitoring, assaying and field surveying, as economically
as I can. I plan on making a southwest uranium mineral collecting trek in a couple of years and I want a tool that would be well suited to that.
Any advice would be appreciated. |
It's so hard to pick just one piece of equipment to do everything.
I think the first thing you should do is figure out what probes you want to use and then the meter that you want to use.
The model 3 is really good, but a more versatile tool would be the Ludlum Model 2350 Datalogger, I'm taking mine to Chernobyl.
After you have a good handheld or desktop meter you'll start collecting different probes for different purposes.
The pancake probe is good for frisking but I love the scream of a scintillator when surveying. When I go on my trip I will take both, but I will use
the pancake mostly for frisking our clothes to ensure that we haven't gotten too contaminated and I will use the scintillator for exploring the
environment and objects.
Another thing I would consider would be a SCA like the Ludlum Model 2221. The SCA gives you the ability to look for specific energies related to
certain isotopes but also obviously does gross counting as well.
There really are a ton of options when it comes to detectors. Sometime I will work on doing a couple videos of the different pieces of equipment I
own and what I use them for.
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gammainspector
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| Quote: Originally posted by neptunium | Chernobyl! wow it might be difficult to bring "souvenir" samples... how does one go about setting up a trip like that? Ukraine is not the typical
vacation destination right now..
by the way did you figure out the wiring on the Bicron 1.5M ? its a good probe
[Edited on 15-8-2015 by neptunium] |
I got really lucky and got added at the last minute. It's a vocational program so not just going for the heck of it. I plan on taking a bunch of
equipment to do as much field analysis as possible.
I also plan on taking advantage of the fact I'll have a MCA up at 40,000 ft to do some cosmic radiation analysis which I will share.
Yeah I ended up getting a few of those going, I might take one with me.
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gammainspector
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| Quote: Originally posted by Praxichys | | Quote: Originally posted by gammainspector | | Actually, neptunium is the reason that I joined this forum. I had seen some of his posts, and oddly enough he only lives an hour or so from me. I'm
heading to Chernobyl in 3 weeks, but after I get back I was going to invite him over. |
Wow, I've met Neptunium in person. We're also less than an hour apart.
Also, welcome aboard! |
thanks for the warm welcome!
We might have to set up a mitten-based amateur experiCON session sometime this fall after I get back from my trip
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gammainspector
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| Quote: Originally posted by careysub | I have some radioactive minerals but have not done anything with them yet, since I have no radiation detector.
I have been looking at Ludlum Model 3 with the pancake probe on eBay for about $500, with the intent of also getting an NaI/Tl probe, which have
appeared (rebuilt) for around $200.
I would rather put all my "radiation detector" money into purchasing one versatile tool for monitoring, assaying and field surveying, as economically
as I can. I plan on making a southwest uranium mineral collecting trek in a couple of years and I want a tool that would be well suited to that.
Any advice would be appreciated. |
Based on what you want to use it for, I would be less interested in a ratemeter if I were you and more interested in some kind of counter/scaler. A
good example of the differences is the Ludlum Model 2221 and the Eberline E600. The Ludlum unit is a versatile unit that can do just about anything
you want to do in the field, but is more focused on generating data for scientific purposes (comparing gross gamma counts, investigating contamination
in the field, checking for contamination of a particular isotope, etc) the E600 is more of a heath physics unit and more focused on dose rates etc.
For what you are doing you will be less concerned about dose conversions and more interested in more specific data like comparing cpm data etc. For a
lot of field work (especially with NORM materials) I think you will find the scintillator probe more useful than the pancake probe. The pancake probe
will be "blind" to some low energy photons that are still easily detectable with a scintillator. For example, I have a calibrated 50,000 dpm I129
source, which is often used for low energy calibrations. I can put a pancake probe right on top of it and not see any increase in the count rate, but
with a scintillator probe I can easily detect the low-energy photons. Also, with a pancake probe you will have interference from beta particles (it's
hard to detect alphas in the field, what with self absorption and the fact they only travel a few centimeters in the air). Often you will find using
a gamma-only probe (like a scintillator) is most useful for detection in the environment. I use shielded pancake probes in the lab for analysis but
only after I spend time processing the samples and even then I'm only measuring a few grams (under 10g) at a time on a planchette.
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careysub
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| Quote: Originally posted by gammainspector |
Based on what you want to use it for, I would be less interested in a ratemeter if I were you and more interested in some kind of counter/scaler. A
good example of the differences is the Ludlum Model 2221 and the Eberline E600. The Ludlum unit is a versatile unit that can do just about anything
you want to do in the field, but is more focused on generating data for scientific purposes (comparing gross gamma counts, investigating contamination
in the field, checking for contamination of a particular isotope, etc) the E600 is more of a heath physics unit and more focused on dose rates etc.
For what you are doing you will be less concerned about dose conversions and more interested in more specific data like comparing cpm data etc. For a
lot of field work (especially with NORM materials) I think you will find the scintillator probe more useful than the pancake probe. The pancake probe
will be "blind" to some low energy photons that are still easily detectable with a scintillator. For example, I have a calibrated 50,000 dpm I129
source, which is often used for low energy calibrations. I can put a pancake probe right on top of it and not see any increase in the count rate, but
with a scintillator probe I can easily detect the low-energy photons. Also, with a pancake probe you will have interference from beta particles (it's
hard to detect alphas in the field, what with self absorption and the fact they only travel a few centimeters in the air). Often you will find using
a gamma-only probe (like a scintillator) is most useful for detection in the environment. I use shielded pancake probes in the lab for analysis but
only after I spend time processing the samples and even then I'm only measuring a few grams (under 10g) at a time on a planchette.
|
Yes, I have little interest in healthy physics readouts, I am only interested in raw counts. I think I need both a scintillation gamma probe for field
collecting (only gammas get through the air unless you on top of something), and a GM probe with an alpha window for lab work.
There is a Ludlum 1000 and 2000 scalers for only $300 on eBay right now, but they are bench units, not designed for field carry.
There are Ludlum 2241s on eBay also, one as cheap as $700 - within the range I was considering (a little higher, but better to get something good and
proper).
There are Eberline E600s available for only $250, which say they are scalers and are hand carry models. I'm not sure if they are sufficiently
versatile, taking different probes or not.
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careysub
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| Quote: Originally posted by gammainspector |
Based on what you want to use it for, I would be less interested in a ratemeter if I were you and more interested in some kind of counter/scaler. A
good example of the differences is the Ludlum Model 2221 and the Eberline E600. The Ludlum unit is a versatile unit that can do just about anything
you want to do in the field, but is more focused on generating data for scientific purposes (comparing gross gamma counts, investigating contamination
in the field, checking for contamination of a particular isotope, etc) the E600 is more of a heath physics unit and more focused on dose rates etc.
For what you are doing you will be less concerned about dose conversions and more interested in more specific data like comparing cpm data etc. For a
lot of field work (especially with NORM materials) I think you will find the scintillator probe more useful than the pancake probe. The pancake probe
will be "blind" to some low energy photons that are still easily detectable with a scintillator. For example, I have a calibrated 50,000 dpm I129
source, which is often used for low energy calibrations. I can put a pancake probe right on top of it and not see any increase in the count rate, but
with a scintillator probe I can easily detect the low-energy photons. Also, with a pancake probe you will have interference from beta particles (it's
hard to detect alphas in the field, what with self absorption and the fact they only travel a few centimeters in the air). Often you will find using
a gamma-only probe (like a scintillator) is most useful for detection in the environment. I use shielded pancake probes in the lab for analysis but
only after I spend time processing the samples and even then I'm only measuring a few grams (under 10g) at a time on a planchette.
|
Yes, I have little interest in healthy physics readouts, I am only interested in raw counts. I think I need both a scintillation gamma probe for field
collecting (only gammas get through the air unless you on top of something), and a GM probe with an alpha window for lab work.
There is a Ludlum 1000 and 2000 scalers for only $300 on eBay right now, but they are bench units, not designed for field carry.
There are Ludlum 2241s on eBay also, one as cheap as $700 - within the range I was considering (a little higher, but better to get something good and
proper).
There are Eberline E600s available for only $250, which say they are scalers and are hand carry models. I'm not sure if they are sufficiently
versatile, taking different probes or not.
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gammainspector
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| Quote: Originally posted by careysub | | Quote: Originally posted by gammainspector |
Based on what you want to use it for, I would be less interested in a ratemeter if I were you and more interested in some kind of counter/scaler. A
good example of the differences is the Ludlum Model 2221 and the Eberline E600. The Ludlum unit is a versatile unit that can do just about anything
you want to do in the field, but is more focused on generating data for scientific purposes (comparing gross gamma counts, investigating contamination
in the field, checking for contamination of a particular isotope, etc) the E600 is more of a heath physics unit and more focused on dose rates etc.
For what you are doing you will be less concerned about dose conversions and more interested in more specific data like comparing cpm data etc. For a
lot of field work (especially with NORM materials) I think you will find the scintillator probe more useful than the pancake probe. The pancake probe
will be "blind" to some low energy photons that are still easily detectable with a scintillator. For example, I have a calibrated 50,000 dpm I129
source, which is often used for low energy calibrations. I can put a pancake probe right on top of it and not see any increase in the count rate, but
with a scintillator probe I can easily detect the low-energy photons. Also, with a pancake probe you will have interference from beta particles (it's
hard to detect alphas in the field, what with self absorption and the fact they only travel a few centimeters in the air). Often you will find using
a gamma-only probe (like a scintillator) is most useful for detection in the environment. I use shielded pancake probes in the lab for analysis but
only after I spend time processing the samples and even then I'm only measuring a few grams (under 10g) at a time on a planchette.
|
Yes, I have little interest in healthy physics readouts, I am only interested in raw counts. I think I need both a scintillation gamma probe for field
collecting (only gammas get through the air unless you on top of something), and a GM probe with an alpha window for lab work.
There is a Ludlum 1000 and 2000 scalers for only $300 on eBay right now, but they are bench units, not designed for field carry.
There are Ludlum 2241s on eBay also, one as cheap as $700 - within the range I was considering (a little higher, but better to get something good and
proper).
There are Eberline E600s available for only $250, which say they are scalers and are hand carry models. I'm not sure if they are sufficiently
versatile, taking different probes or not. |
The E600 is a great machine if you have all of the right cables and probes. Plan on spending a few hundred getting all of them.
I might be able to help you find a handheld unit. I know quite a few people who have inventories at good prices.
I did a writeup on those E600s already, heres my thoughts.
"First, I am not affiliated with this seller in any way. I purchased one of these units which will arrive in a few days and I will report on the
quality and operability of the unit.
This seller has listed quite a few E600 units at an incredible price. I made him an offer below the $250 that he has listed and he accepted. If you
have an E600 with the necessary accessories this might be a good opportunity to get a backup unit on the cheap.
The E600 is a pretty incredible unit but usually very expensive (Normally priced over $1000 just for the unit on epay). These units appear to be sans
any cords/smart probes. That means if you don't already have them, plan on investing a few hundred dollars.
These units settings are changed by software that GEO has uploaded to the site for us. You will need a cable to connect the unit to your pc, I
recently bought one from Thermo-Fisher new and it was under $150 with shipping included.
Additionally your going to need the probe cable, this is a little more pricey. There is the original probe cord, which only works with eberline smart
probes (which are expensive and hard to find). There is also a SmartPAK adapter that allows the unit to be paired with normal "dumb" probes. These
cords are hard to find and will likely cost you a few hundred. I know there is someone who is selling a bunch of smartPAK cables with various
adapters for $140 (a very fair price I think) "
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careysub
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Thanks gammainspector. You know my situation and requirements pretty well - currently I got nothin' so all accouterments would have to be acquired.
I need a hand held scaler unit equipped with both alpha-window GM probe and a scintillation probe.
Money to spend for the whole set up - under $1000 (as far under as I can manage while still getting what I need).
Currently my acquisition strategy has been shopping on eBay. A lot of radiation detecting units show up there regularly, I guess the radiation
detection biz has a fair amount of equipment turnove.
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neptunium
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| Quote: Originally posted by careysub | Thanks gammainspector. You know my situation and requirements pretty well - currently I got nothin' so all accouterments would have to be acquired.
I need a hand held scaler unit equipped with both alpha-window GM probe and a scintillation probe.
Money to spend for the whole set up - under $1000 (as far under as I can manage while still getting what I need).
Currently my acquisition strategy has been shopping on eBay. A lot of radiation detecting units show up there regularly, I guess the radiation
detection biz has a fair amount of equipment turnove. |
that's what we all do I guess ebay is THE source!
You know since Fukushima I`ve noticed a lot of changes in the price and variety of radiation detectors ... more choices but higher prices indeed...
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neptunium
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| Quote: Originally posted by gammainspector | | Quote: Originally posted by Praxichys | | Quote: Originally posted by gammainspector | | Actually, neptunium is the reason that I joined this forum. I had seen some of his posts, and oddly enough he only lives an hour or so from me. I'm
heading to Chernobyl in 3 weeks, but after I get back I was going to invite him over. |
Wow, I've met Neptunium in person. We're also less than an hour apart.
Also, welcome aboard! |
thanks for the warm welcome!
We might have to set up a mitten-based amateur experiCON session sometime this fall after I get back from my trip
|
yes lets do that... I`ve tried to set up a scientific club of sorts some years ago in the Detroit area...
please do bring samples back from Chernobyl!!!
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gammainspector
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| Quote: Originally posted by careysub | Thanks gammainspector. You know my situation and requirements pretty well - currently I got nothin' so all accouterments would have to be acquired.
I need a hand held scaler unit equipped with both alpha-window GM probe and a scintillation probe.
Money to spend for the whole set up - under $1000 (as far under as I can manage while still getting what I need).
Currently my acquisition strategy has been shopping on eBay. A lot of radiation detecting units show up there regularly, I guess the radiation
detection biz has a fair amount of equipment turnove. |
I know a guy who is selling off some of his quality equipment to make a big purchase of equipment. I'll check with him to see what he has available.
I know I have a pancake probe and a scintillation probe that I can sell for cheap (but I would have to put an adapter on the scintillation probe).
When considering scintillation probes, keep in mind that smaller quality probes may have better resolution than larger crystals, but will be less
sensitive. This is due to the crystal size and its ability to interact with more/less emissions of a given energy. Larger crystals obviously have
more material to interact with the photons, but also will have greater uncertainty of the actual energy (loss of resolution).
Here's some perspectives on crystal sizes.
In the lab I like to use as large a crystal as possible (2x2 or 3x3) to increase sensitivity, also I can control the calibration better in a fixed
environment.
In the field a 2x2 is the preferred crystal size (Ludlum Model 44-10 2x2 NaI probe is the industry standard for environmental gross gamma
measurements). But in certain areas of higher contamination I prefer to carry around a 1x1.5 probe.
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gammainspector
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| Quote: Originally posted by neptunium | | Quote: Originally posted by gammainspector | | Quote: Originally posted by Praxichys | | Quote: Originally posted by gammainspector | | Actually, neptunium is the reason that I joined this forum. I had seen some of his posts, and oddly enough he only lives an hour or so from me. I'm
heading to Chernobyl in 3 weeks, but after I get back I was going to invite him over. |
Wow, I've met Neptunium in person. We're also less than an hour apart.
Also, welcome aboard! |
thanks for the warm welcome!
We might have to set up a mitten-based amateur experiCON session sometime this fall after I get back from my trip
|
yes lets do that... I`ve tried to set up a scientific club of sorts some years ago in the Detroit area...
please do bring samples back from Chernobyl!!! |
I'd join your club, lets work on putting something together when I get back.
I do plan on bringing back some samples with me, I'll go more into detail what/how after I get back. One of these days I want to put together a
write-up on all of the different types of samples that can be taken and the methodology behind each sample type to make each most scientifically
valuable.
I'll be overseas from 9/2-9/16. When I get back, we will have to set up a time for you to come over and check out the lab and do some experimenting!
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neptunium
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great! I am looking forward !
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gammainspector
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Ok a quick friendly reminder to all.
I recently sent some equipment to Ludlum to get calibrated.
I received a call from them this week informing they found some alpha contamination on one of the NaI probes that I use. They ever so kindly removed
it for me.
Now I have the pleasure of using my Ludlum Model 43-65 alpha scintillation probe to ensure that there are no other probes with residual contamination
on them.
PLEASE REMEMBER TO FREQUENTLY CLEAN YOUR EQUIPMENT AND FRISK IT FOR SURFACE CONTAMINATION
(Also, this is a good opportunity to remind the reader never to eat/drink in the area where you are working with radioactive materials!)
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neptunium
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i ALWAYS clean AND air tight my probes with a freezer bag (thick enough) and electrical tape tight around it to keep it air ( dirt and moisture too)
proof ...
glad you took the time to get your equipment calibrated cleaned and ready for some serious action!
I know i sound like an old bitch but never take any chances with hazardous chemicals, high voltage, viruses, radioactive stuff, or anything
harmful...it aint worth it.
safety third! 
have a great trip and PLEASE bring samples back!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Camroc37
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Can I have a quote on testing my Trinitite? I want to know where from the blast it came from. I have seen an article on this being done. I want all
the tests and documents mailed back with the Trinitite. I don't have a ton of money, but U2U me a quote.
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gammainspector
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| Quote: Originally posted by neptunium | i ALWAYS clean AND air tight my probes with a freezer bag (thick enough) and electrical tape tight around it to keep it air ( dirt and moisture too)
proof ...
glad you took the time to get your equipment calibrated cleaned and ready for some serious action!
I know i sound like an old bitch but never take any chances with hazardous chemicals, high voltage, viruses, radioactive stuff, or anything
harmful...it aint worth it.
safety third!
have a great trip and PLEASE bring samples back!!!!!!!!!!!!
|
I will see what I can do!
Also I agree with you about not taking chances, for the reasons illustrated in the photograph
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