| Pages:
1
2
3 |
anyz
Harmless
Posts: 4
Registered: 11-6-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
tin metal powder
Hi,
I'm looking for tin (Sn) powder at home lab. is there a simple way like heating and getting it i powder form possible mixing some other substance.
and finally what is its final color; gray , white?
|
|
|
Loptr
International Hazard
Posts: 1348
Registered: 20-5-2014
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Grateful
|
|
I have some tin ingots that are a shiny silver color.
|
|
|
anyz
Harmless
Posts: 4
Registered: 11-6-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
someone told liquid tin and alum when heated for soem long time can convert tin in powder shape. But i'm not sure. any idea?
|
|
|
Molecular Manipulations
Hazard to Others
Posts: 447
Registered: 17-12-2014
Location: The Garden of Eden
Member Is Offline
Mood: High on forbidden fruit
|
|
Google is your friend.
-The manipulator
We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know. -W. H. Auden
|
|
|
MrHomeScientist
International Hazard
Posts: 1806
Registered: 24-10-2010
Location: Flerovium
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Depending on your requirements for particle size and quantity, you could always use a file or sandpaper.
|
|
|
Sulaiman
International Hazard
Posts: 3698
Registered: 8-2-2015
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Member Is Offline
|
|
I have not tried but when I was experimenting with tin
(my stock material was solid silvery shiny ingots)
I remember that tin has two common allotropes,
the common alpha-tin which is stable above 13.2 C can change to the brittle beta-tin at low temperatures
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin
so maybe if you put tin in a freezer for some time then pound it with a hammer it will pulverise?
liquid (molten) tin poured into water gives tin nodules
|
|
|
Texium
Administrator
Posts: 4583
Registered: 11-1-2014
Location: Salt Lake City
Member Is Offline
Mood: PhD candidate!
|
|
Easier said than done. I've had a little strip of some pure tin sitting in the freezer for at least a month now and it hasn't changed a bit. It seems
like it takes much colder temps to drive the reaction forward at an appreciable rate.
[Edited on 6-12-2015 by zts16]
|
|
|
Molecular Manipulations
Hazard to Others
Posts: 447
Registered: 17-12-2014
Location: The Garden of Eden
Member Is Offline
Mood: High on forbidden fruit
|
|
My tin never turned to beta in the year it's been at -10 C.
Must not be as pure as the label says...
-The manipulator
We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know. -W. H. Auden
|
|
|
unionised
International Hazard
Posts: 5126
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
If you take a piece of cast tin and put it in the fridge you will wait a long time for it to convert to grey tin.
Putting it in the freezer will actually slow the reaction down.
However if you take that tin and hammer it flat so there are lots of defect in the crystal structure then put it in the fridge it will change much
quicker (though we are still talking about months.)
|
|
|
vmelkon
National Hazard
Posts: 669
Registered: 25-11-2011
Location: Canada
Member Is Offline
Mood: autoerotic asphyxiation
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by unionised  | If you take a piece of cast tin and put it in the fridge you will wait a long time for it to convert to grey tin.
Putting it in the freezer will actually slow the reaction down.
However if you take that tin and hammer it flat so there are lots of defect in the crystal structure then put it in the fridge it will change much
quicker (though we are still talking about months.) |
Interesting. Has it worked for you?
I haven't done this since I don't have pure tin.
Signature ==== Is this my youtube page? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA5PYtul5aU
We must attach the electrodes of knowledge to the nipples of ignorance and give a few good jolts.
Yes my evolutionary friends. We are all homos here. |
|
|
anyz
Harmless
Posts: 4
Registered: 11-6-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Let me give some background. I'm looking to powder the Tin for making its Calyx that is traditional indian way for making medicine by mixing with
other herbs.
- Metal should be in pure powder form without any grain/particles
Traditional ways recommended are by heating with alum or similar stuff. But this is also not fully documented.
Let me give some background. I'm looking to powder the Tin for making its Calyx that is traditional indian way for making medicine by mixing with
other herbs.
- Metal should be in pure powder form without any grain/particles
Traditional ways recommended are by heating with alum or similar stuff. But this is also not fully documented.
[Edited on 13-6-2015 by anyz]
|
|
|
blogfast25
International Hazard
Posts: 10562
Registered: 3-2-2008
Location: Neverland
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by anyz |
Let me give some background. I'm looking to powder the Tin for making its Calyx that is traditional indian way for making medicine by mixing with
other herbs.
|
Huh?
|
|
|
The Volatile Chemist
International Hazard
Posts: 1981
Registered: 22-3-2014
Location: 'Stil' in the lab...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Copious
|
|
This is probably just me being an idiot, but what if you melted some sodium, dissolved the tin in it, then reacted away the sodium? I'd just been
thinking about this recently.
|
|
|
Pok
potassium Prometheus
Posts: 176
Registered: 5-12-2010
Member Is Offline
|
|
If you heat tin to 162 °C but below ~ 230 °C (m.p.) you will get gamma tin (the third allotrope beside alpha and beta), which is so brittle that you
can grind it to powder in a mortar (while still hot).
Other options for coarse powder ("stannum pulveratum"): grind molten tin with salt, let it cool, dissolve in water, dry. Or shake molten tin with hot
chalk powder in a wooden container. For medium-fine powder ("stannum praecipitatum"): cementation with zinc from a stannous chloride solution. (literature)
@Sulaiman and Molecular Manipulations: gray tin is the alpha allotrope, not the beta.
[Edited on 13-6-2015 by Pok]
|
|
|
unionised
International Hazard
Posts: 5126
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by anyz | Let me give some background. I'm looking to powder the Tin for making its Calyx that is traditional indian way for making medicine by mixing with
other herbs.
[Edited on 13-6-2015 by anyz] |
Why?
It's not as it it will have any medical benefit.
|
|
|
Molecular Manipulations
Hazard to Others
Posts: 447
Registered: 17-12-2014
Location: The Garden of Eden
Member Is Offline
Mood: High on forbidden fruit
|
|
Probably some smart indian once realized he could add a heavy metal filler add weight to his useless herb mixture, wrote down the recipe and the sheep
followed.
-The manipulator
We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know. -W. H. Auden
|
|
|
j_sum1
Administrator
Posts: 6324
Registered: 4-10-2014
Location: At home
Member Is Offline
Mood: Most of the ducks are in a row
|
|
Maybe we need a woo-buster subforum.
|
|
|
anyz
Harmless
Posts: 4
Registered: 11-6-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Thanks a lot for all comments. This is correct that it is very hard for me to get actual recipe that works; that is within set herbal standards and
still within cost-budget.
There are too many fluff but this was not making sense to me. I'm not a pure chemistry soul so i decided to try my luck with knowledgeable forum.
|
|
|
zed
International Hazard
Posts: 2283
Registered: 6-9-2008
Location: Great State of Jefferson, City of Portland
Member Is Offline
Mood: Semi-repentant Sith Lord
|
|
Try Dry Ice. Metals are generally more brittle when cold. Ball milling?
http://www.viralnova.com/chemical-reactions/
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v169/n4302/pdf/169621b0...
Reports suggest that -50 C can do the deed quickly. Sadly, some of us are in parts of the world where Dry Ice is usually unavailable.
[Edited on 15-6-2015 by zed]
[Edited on 15-6-2015 by zed]
|
|
|
Sulaiman
International Hazard
Posts: 3698
Registered: 8-2-2015
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Member Is Offline
|
|
If you can buy a CO2 fire extinguisher
e.g. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brand-New-2kg-CO2-Fire-Extinguishe...
you can make your own dry ice
e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCkBaoHXJT4
very convenient ... not cheap though
[Edited on 15-6-2015 by Sulaiman]
|
|
|
Fenir
Hazard to Self
Posts: 68
Registered: 7-5-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I am not sure tin is a good addition to herbal medicine......I seem to remember that heavy metals have the opposite of healing effects when consumed.
|
|
|
AJKOER
Radically Dubious
Posts: 3026
Registered: 7-5-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Pok | If you heat tin to 162 °C but below ~ 230 °C (m.p.) you will get gamma tin (the third allotrope beside alpha and beta), which is so brittle that you
can grind it to powder in a mortar (while still hot).
...............
[Edited on 13-6-2015 by Pok] |
Per this source http://tin.atomistry.com/physical_properties.html , the magic temperature is, to quote:
"At 200° C. tin becomes brittle and can be powdered."
which is within the range (actually very nearly the midpoint) specified by Pok.
[Edited on 15-6-2015 by AJKOER]
|
|
|
kecskesajt
Hazard to Others
Posts: 299
Registered: 7-12-2014
Location: Hungary
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Maybe add some Mg-stearate to SnCl2 and add Al pieces into it.Hopefully the Al will reduce the Sn+ to Sn. 3 SnCl2 + 2 Al = 3 Sn + 2 AlCl3.The
Mg-stearate is to protect the Sn from redissolving.
|
|
|
AJKOER
Radically Dubious
Posts: 3026
Registered: 7-5-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Fenir | | I am not sure tin is a good addition to herbal medicine......I seem to remember that heavy metals have the opposite of healing effects when consumed.
|
I somewhat recently recounted on SM the dated use of Arsenic in medicine (see http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=62063#... ), apparently as toxin for bacteria. In my opinion, a dangerous art based on
relative toxicity (the "cure" kills the bugs before the host). While one can apply Probit Analysis (commonly used in toxicology to determine the
relative toxicity of chemicals to living organisms), the art of such statistical analysis can generate a reference LD50 for the host and the disease
(where the LD50 is the observed lethal dose at which half the population lives or dies). Hence my use of the words "dangerous" and "art".
The employment of heavy metals in such roles predates the use of modern antibiotics.
I would be interested if any biochemists feel whether any heavy metal (for example, nano silver) could possibly provide an alternative against
increasing antibiotic immune super bugs?
[Edited on 16-6-2015 by AJKOER]
|
|
|
Molecular Manipulations
Hazard to Others
Posts: 447
Registered: 17-12-2014
Location: The Garden of Eden
Member Is Offline
Mood: High on forbidden fruit
|
|
I'm not a biochemist, but at least I know how to search the web.
Lots of doctors do use silver as an antibiotic coating on medical devices. Many wound dressings containing silver sulfadiazine or silver nanomaterials
may be used on external infections, however there's very little evidence of it's effectiveness. Ref.
Colloidal silver and formulations containing silver salts were used by physicians in the early 20th century, but their use was largely discontinued in
the 1940s following the development of safer and effective modern antibiotics.
There is tentative evidence that silver coatings on endotracheal breathing tubes may reduce the incidence of ventilator-associated pneumonia. Ref.
The silver ion (Ag+) is bioactive and in sufficient concentration readily kills bacteria in vitro. Silver exhibits low toxicity in the human body, and
minimal risk is expected due to clinical exposure by inhalation, ingestion, or dermal application. Ref.
Since the 1990s, colloidal silver has again been marketed as an alternative medicine, often with extensive "cure-all" claims. Again, there's little
evidence that most of these (or any) are effective.
Google is your friend.
As for tin, it isn't very toxic, mostly because in elemental form it doesn't get oxidized and thus remains just tin metal. The compounds of it aren't
as toxic as many other heavy metals, but that doesn't make it "safe" either.
Also I doubt the tin used by Native Americans was free from lead and other actually toxic heavy metals, so their continued use of it may have been
partially from killed brain cells that kept them from realizing they were poising themselves! No offense, it's isn't/wasn't their fault.
[Edited on 16-6-2015 by Molecular Manipulations]
-The manipulator
We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know. -W. H. Auden
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2
3 |
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
