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The Volatile Chemist
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An Amateur organizing organisation for chemistry
EsoCheS
The Esoteric Chemist’s Society fills a gap for amateurs that would only otherwise be filled completely by professional organizations. The ACS
organizes, through the Chemical Abstracts Service, professional publications that move forward chemistry. No such organization at this moment exists
for legitimate amateur chemists.
The title of EsoCheS, The Esoteric Chemist’s Society, derives from the esoteric qualities of pure research for the amateur chemist. There is little
desire to publish a new path or complex, or data collected, if it doesn’t end with a bang, or bright colors. Still, important information can be
gathered by amateurs. Such information is mixed among discussion on discussion forums such as Sciencemadness.org, a community for English-speaking
amateur chemists. Nonetheless, the finding of needed information can be difficult, despite its existence, due to the lack of organization of the data
spread throughout books and websites. Thus, an organization for the collectivization of data for amateurs is necessary to remove the clutter from
data, and make it easier to access.
Since the title of the society portrays that members are interested in process, research, and data, not just product, other enterprises by this
amateur society in regards to these qualities would eventually form. Such might be for the open-sourcing of data, or entry into competitions as a
group.
Also, the organization itself represents an idea of amateur experimentation. Thus subjects relating to any form of experimentation, any science or
math may become sub-focuses of the society.
This organization will work best with a large hierarchy of members, constantly changing according to activity within the society, and profitability of
the endeavors of the members. Nonetheless, a single owner is necessary to keep focus, as an organization board or democracy is easily led astray by
sub-committees and secondary projects from its original goal. Underneath the owner will be a board of at least 5 members, which will make defining
decisions for the organization, creating sub-committees for the organization. The board will affirm issues with a 2/3 majority. Affirmation may be
nullified by the owner unless all members of the board agree to the affirmation of the proposal. Any member of EsoCheS may submit a proposal. The
board’s existence will be initiated by the joining of the twentieth member, and the original members be chosen by the owner. These original members
will determine a board member’s term length and the subsequent choosing process for new board members.
As the owner of this newly created organization, I, Nathan Pimental, invite any members of the Sciencemadness.org community to apply for membership in
EsoCheS, for the betterment of amateur chemistry as a whole.
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As most of my ideas, if you think it sucks, tell me. I've been thinking about this for a while though, it seemed necessary. The goal of this is also
to give everyone who does research an ability to publish their results, regardless of prestige.
[Edited on 4-30-2015 by The Volatile Chemist]
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blogfast25
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The (proposed?) name “Esoteric Chemist’s Society” should be enough put anyone off permanently. Just look at the dictionary definition of
‘esoteric’. In this day and age, nobody, apart from a few nutters of course, is going to be attracted to an organisation that is associated with
‘secretiveness’ and ‘closedness’, for instance. Madame Blavatsky is long dead, thankfully.
Also, if your initiative is aimed at amateurs/hobbyists the name should reflect that quite clearly, IMO.
Despite having spent a few hundred words on trying to explain the objective of this exercise, it remains far from clear to me what it is you want the
‘ECS’ to achieve.
At this point I can’t seriously dismiss the possibility of a belated April fool’s prank.
[Edited on 30-4-2015 by blogfast25]
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The Volatile Chemist
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Lol, I'm too dumb for sophisticated April fools pranks. The goal is to organize published research by amateur chemists into a database easily
searchable and free to access. The SM Prepub. subforum doesn't seem very good at getting things past pre-publication.
I guess the name could use change. Any suggestions, or is it just a bad idea?
[Edited on 4-30-2015 by The Volatile Chemist]
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blogfast25
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Any SM member can publish their results at SM. It's up to the author to choose the format of the write-up, from very formal to very informal. SM pages
are widely indexed by Google and easy to find.
SM isn't very searchable but using Google's domain-specific searches greatly alleviates that problem.
What do you feel would 'ECS' improve on this situation?
Going by your 'Peppertree Labs' thingy, I think you're a bit of a dreamer.
[Edited on 30-4-2015 by blogfast25]
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Etaoin Shrdlu
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Oh, my head.
I also don't see what advantages this has over the sciencemadness board, unless you're intending to start a journal or chemistry hackspace.
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blogfast25
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Quote: Originally posted by Etaoin Shrdlu  | | I also don't see what advantages this has over the sciencemadness board, unless you're intending to start a journal or chemistry hackspace.
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That's the crux of course: what would 'ECS' do that SM isn't already doing?
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The Volatile Chemist
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Point proven, though indexing doesn't pull together what's already out there. Besides, Oelen's text only database isn't indexed by Google, and
sciencemadness forum posts get less priority over adds and stores on Google.
| Quote: | | Going by your 'Peppertree Labs' thingy, I think you're a bit of a dreamer. |
Unnecessary insulting.
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blogfast25
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Explain what you mean by "Oelen's text only database".
You're probably confounding high Google rank with indexing: Google indexes anything that's linked to by another page. Ranking high is quite another
thing but some of SM's pages actually do rank high. I regularly find my own SM posts in Google, for example.
I'm not trying to insult you: how are you going to lead 'ECS' if you're so sensitive to even mild criticism? 
I repeat the question: 'what specifically would ECS do that SM doesn't already do?' How would it constitute an improvement over the current state of
affairs?
[Edited on 30-4-2015 by blogfast25]
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Loptr
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| Quote: Originally posted by The Volatile Chemist | Point proven, though indexing doesn't pull together what's already out there. Besides, Oelen's text only database isn't indexed by Google, and
sciencemadness forum posts get less priority over adds and stores on Google.
| Quote: | | Going by your 'Peppertree Labs' thingy, I think you're a bit of a dreamer. |
Unnecessary insulting. |
It's perfectly fine to be a dreamer.
If, by Rudyard Kipling (http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/175772)
If you can dream—and not make dreams your master;
If you can think—and not make thoughts your aim;
TVC, don't take anything that is said here to heart. I see your goal of a more structured approach to this than SM provides, where
members are really members, moreso than simply having an account on a web forum. You want more legitimacy, and that is completely fine. Now, if only
the nay-sayer would keep the response to constructive criticism, and not resort to ad-hominem. If you are dreamer, so what, does that mean your ideas
are less valid as a general rule? (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem)
[Edited on 30-4-2015 by Loptr]
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blogfast25
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| Quote: Originally posted by Loptr | | Now, if only the nay-sayer would keep the response to constructive criticism, and not resort to ad-hominem. If you are dreamer, so what, does that
mean your ideas are less valid as a general rule? |
If you put the bar for ad hom that low, the expression loses all meaning, Loptr. If being a dreamer is fine, then how is it ad hom?
It would be more interesting to hear your own constructive criticism or support.
[Edited on 30-4-2015 by blogfast25]
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Loptr
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| Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25 | | Quote: Originally posted by Loptr | | Now, if only the nay-sayer would keep the response to constructive criticism, and not resort to ad-hominem. If you are dreamer, so what, does that
mean your ideas are less valid as a general rule? |
If you put the bar for ad hom that low, it loses all meaning, Loptr. If being a dreamer is fine, how is it ad hom?
It would be more interesting to hear your own constructive criticism or support.
[Edited on 30-4-2015 by blogfast25] |
I wasn't responding to criticism of the idea, but rather criticism of the individual.
By saying "going by your peppertree labs thingy, I think you're a bit of a dreamer" in the context of a response to an idea, you are attempting to
discredit the idea based on the perceived inability of someone to materialize a plan. That is typically what is intended when said in that context.
That is ad hominem, so no lowering of any bars.
And it doesn't matter if it's alright to be dreamer, it obviously isn't alright to you, which why you would make that distinction. Why else make a
statement like that?
[Edited on 30-4-2015 by Loptr]
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The Volatile Chemist
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I already implied that I understood there was little purpose for EsoCheS other than for the organization of data, and for structure. Try to keep it on
topic, drop the Latin debate.
How was my reaction 'sensitive'? the usage of the word thingy indicates, along with your latter usage of single quotations around ECS, that your
intentions were for me to react to the phrases, not let them hang as a suggestion, as it was a personal comment.
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blogfast25
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| Quote: Originally posted by Loptr |
[…] you are attempting to discredit the idea based on the perceived inability of someone to materialize a plan. That is typically what is intended
when said in that context.
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Let’s keep it simple before you start debating how many angels fit on the tip of a pin, shall we?
I believe the idea is indeed rubbish, based on the poor description in the OP and that Peppertree Labs is hardly a shining example of organisational
skills. Nothing TVC has said so far has convinced me otherwise. That's my opinion, plain and simple.
| Quote: Originally posted by The Volatile Chemist | | [...]along with your latter usage of single quotations around ECS, that your intentions were for me to react to the phrases, not let them hang as a
suggestion, as it was a personal comment. |
Single quote marks are often used for mere emphasis, nothing more.
I don’t think your idea will fly but really do wish you all the best with it. 
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Loptr
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| Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25 |
Let’s keep it simple before you start debating how many angels fit on the tip of a pin, shall we?
I believe the idea is indeed rubbish, based on the poor description in the OP and that Peppertree Labs is hardly a shining example of organisational
skills. Nothing TVC has said so far has convinced me otherwise. That's my opinion, plain and simple.
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You admitted to it, no cause for any further debate.
...and like I have to count the numbers of angels that can dance on a pin, everybody knows its 42. 
[Edited on 30-4-2015 by Loptr]
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blogfast25
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I admitted to NOTHING, okay?  Don't create a straw man.
Judging someone's ability to pull of a major project by the results of a past project may not be accurate but it isn't ad hominem.
[Edited on 30-4-2015 by blogfast25]
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pneumatician
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exist many "public" labs like this, but... also exist the industrial secret, so... this is ridicoulus nobody here publish anything you could do rich, so some labs are public and some are secret. and by "secret" you can
call "esoteric", "masonry", etc
http://biocurious.org/
you see the mad science projects?
https://experiment.com/
http://scifundchallenge.org/
http://www.rockethub.com/
https://walacea.com/
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blogfast25
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I don't think the proposed purpose of 'ECS' is financial.
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The Volatile Chemist
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Just to confirm, it was an Open-Source Idea, not a make a lot of money idea. If you ever see 'PTL Labs', in the future, though, that'll be me. Maybe I
am a dreamer. See you around.
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Texium
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I don't think that yet another organization is necessary. I kind of understand why you want to do this, but stuff already exists that fits the
functions that you describe. Of course, SM is already a great medium to communicate with other home chemists. Also, Rador Labs, although it garnered
similar criticism to this ECS when it was first proposed, is becoming more developed, doing some good, and there are plans to expand our horizons and
get a more cohesive and professional front at some point. Nathan, I think that if you'd come back to Rador Labs and participate in the Skype groups
more, you'd be satisfied.
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aga
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Given the very Nature of the oddbods involved in amateur Science, a Society doesn't really work too well.
I can only speak for myself, so my own relationship with Societies is not one of mutual co-operation.
Basically they tend to become power-bases for some ego or another, at which point i lose all interest in being a member - this is basic human nature,
and unavoidable.
Like as not, SM is about as perfect as it gets.
Minimal control, no stringent requirements on members and little to no attempt to organise it's members.
Polvervone et all should take a moment to pat themselves on the back and accept a heartfelt Well Done from this oddbod at least.
Edit:
As for Rador - what is the Point ?
A more Youthful oriented Science Group ?
What on earth would that mean ?
I would prefer to see the talented members of Rador doing more Science, more Experiments and posting more frequently here, there or anywhere, rather
than endless discussions about what the next Big Rador thing will be.
That would impress me (and i feel sure many others) much more than mere Talk or pointless competitions.
Probably impress yourselves a lot more too.
If the Rador Group is interested in Science, do some ?
If it's an interest in creating Organisations, then Politics would be more suitable, and rewarding.
[Edited on 1-5-2015 by aga]
[Edited on 1-5-2015 by aga]
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Texium
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aga, our YouTube channel is updated fairly often with new videos. Also, yes, it is a more youth oriented thing to an extent, I suppose. We formed the
group with the hopes to take a more active role in promoting home chemistry. As for why we do less stuff than I'd like, well, most of us are still in
school and don't have the time/money/freedom required to run such an organization quite yet. If I had a better lab, more money to spend on reagents,
and wasn't having to worry about SAT's and AP tests and getting into college, I'd put out a few videos myself. Yes, I know it looks bad to have these
rather vague plans and show little in the way of progress towards our goals, but you can't make a full-fledged organization appear overnight.
Especially not when the members are from all around the world and can't actually collaborate for real.
I've been avoiding talking about it for the most part on here, because it is still a work-in-progress, and I know how very much some of the members
such as yourself hate hearing about our "politics," so don't expect to hear any more about Rador Labs for a while. We'll keep working out the kinks
though, and when it's more polished you can give it a second chance.
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Zombie
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This is an interesting thread.
Lot's of banter, and some valid points on all sides.
I can add something that might bring perspective back in.
The fella that created an internet search engine... Where is he today?
The fella that started whatever group that publishes scientific data..
The fella that started DuPont? Pittsburgh Steel? National Geographic?
They all had an idea. Those ideas became part of daily life.
Nothing wrong with having an idea, and even less so in discussing it. There is NO time frame other than your own so don't sweat other peoples
criticisms regarding "what have you done lately", "when will we see something", "it already exists".
Don't sweat it. I hear stuff like this all the time when I discuss concepts or partially formed ideas. Guess what? If an idea deserves becoming
reality it will manifest itself in its own time. It just happens.
I have listened to "I don't see it happening" all my life. When "IT" does happen guess who sulks off, and has nothing else to say... NaySayers!
I'm not bashing anyone here. Everyone has their own point of view. No problem...
Keep in mind that ideas create reality, reality creates experience, and experience creates new ideas.
Keep those ideas coming. We need a better reality. 
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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blogfast25
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With all respect, Zombie but you're not adding anything here other than the rather anodyne 'Think positive!<sup>TM</sup>'.
In the marketplace of ideas, probably less than one in ten actually make it into reality or makes any significant impact on it.
Naysayers have a function: they discourage people from blowing a lot of time/cash on ideas that have little, if any, chance of surviving in the
marketplace.
I know that probably rubs against your rather woolly worldview but as Claus von Bulow said to Alan Dershowitz, "we can't all be like you, Alan."
[Edited on 2-5-2015 by blogfast25]
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aga
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Negative responses also (can) have another effect : the notion of 'i'll show 'em' turns up and adds Fire to the belly, and things happen.
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blogfast25
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| Quote: Originally posted by aga | | Negative responses also (can) have another effect : the notion of 'i'll show 'em' turns up and adds Fire to the belly, and things happen.
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I've a feeling that applies mainly for people with your personality type!
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