BASF
Hazard to Others
Posts: 282
Registered: 5-11-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: hydrophilic
|
|
Nitro-fullerenes
While it seems impossible to nitrate carbon-fullerenes to an extent that they could be used as explosives, nitrogen-fullerenes may have a future:
http://www-cms.llnl.gov/s-t/ex_soccer.html
http://www.llnl.gov/str/June01/Manaa.html
[Edited on 3-4-2003 by BASF]
|
|
|
Cappy
Hazard to Self
Posts: 92
Registered: 27-3-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
It's funny. I was thinking about how N4 would have a low density from probably being gaseous at room temperature and pressure. Then I thought,
buckminsterfullerene only has london dispersion forces, and it's a solid at room temperature. So I wondered if nitrogen fullerenes would be
possible. Thanks for the links!
|
|
|
Blind Angel
National Hazard
Posts: 845
Registered: 24-11-2002
Location: Québec
Member Is Offline
Mood: Meh!
|
|
does Phosphorous, Silicium, Germanium... fullrene can exist so?
BTW: i did the molecule over Chemsketch and it turned in a Lightbulb shaped fullrene, why is not "perfectly" round like
C<sub>60</sub>? (or it's only chemsketch)
[Edited on 3-4-2003 by Blind Angel]
/}/_//|//) /-\\/|//¬/=/_
My PGP Key Fingerprint: D4EA A609 55E4 7ADD 8529 359D D6E2 33F6 4C76 78ED |
|
|
mykhal
Harmless
Posts: 23
Registered: 4-4-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
pitty
What a pitty I did not read this few days before. Recently I have done some presentation - seminary work about fullerenes. (BTW: many scientific
articles and reviews now lay on my disk - any interest?) These links are very interesting.
|
|
|
Krypton
Hazard to Self
Posts: 90
Registered: 21-11-2002
Location: Spain
Member Is Offline
Mood: explosive 21
|
|
fullerenes
I know the existing 6-nitro-fullerene, a very expensive energetic material, was not the only one what was synthesized.
The informations are low even when a energetic nitro compound.
I think a interested theme is the usage of sphere components as a energetic material.
In convention with my ancestor.
|
|
|
mykhal
Harmless
Posts: 23
Registered: 4-4-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
pardon?
| Quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
I know the existing 6-nitro-fullerene, a very expensive energetic material, .... |
I'm not sure what do you mean by <i>6-nitro-fullerene</i>.
hexaazabuckminsterfullerene C<sub>54</sub>N<sub>6</sub> ?
or nitrobuckminsterfullerene C<sub>60</sub>NO<sub>2</sub> ?
or hexanitrobuckminsterfullerene C<sub>60</sub>(NO<sub>2</sub> <sub>6</sub> ?
|
|
|
Krypton
Hazard to Self
Posts: 90
Registered: 21-11-2002
Location: Spain
Member Is Offline
Mood: explosive 21
|
|
I mean 6-nitrofullerene.
C60NO2
and not hexanitrofullerene.
Have you any sources or articles of the other compounds ?
In convention with my ancestor.
|
|
|
mykhal
Harmless
Posts: 23
Registered: 4-4-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: | | Krypton: I mean 6-nitrofullerene. |
Oh, I was confused by that `6'. There would be only one nitrofullerene (provided that you mean C<sub>60</sub> by `fullerene', because all C-atoms are equivalent. But I cannot imagine mononitrofullerene. There
would be one dangling electron present. I can imagine e.g. C<sub>60</sub>(H)(NO<sub>2</sub> or C<sub>60</sub>(NO<sub>2</sub><sub>2</sub>. As far as I know, hexanitrofullerene exists.
|
|
|
PHILOU Zrealone
International Hazard
Posts: 2893
Registered: 20-5-2002
Location: Brussel
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bis-diazo-dinitro-hydroquinonic
|
|
Fullerenes:
N-20
N-60
Aromatic:
N-6
Have equivalent N and many symetry axis!
That play strong role in stability!
As soon a dissymetry occurs bond lenght may become unequal and explosive decomposition occure!
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
|
|
|
mykhal
Harmless
Posts: 23
Registered: 4-4-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by PHILOU Zrealone
Fullerenes:
N-20
N-60
Aromatic:
N-6
Have equivalent N and many symetry axis!
That play strong role in stability!
As soon a dissymetry occurs bond lenght may become unequal and explosive decomposition occure! |
Could you please explain more clearly what did you mean by N-<i>x</i> ?
|
|
|
Madog
Hazard to Others
Posts: 221
Registered: 20-5-2002
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: lysergic
|
|
he means the amount of Ns in them.
Most people outgrow their pyro tendencies, we are the ones who\'s tendencies outgrew us.
|
|
|
mykhal
Harmless
Posts: 23
Registered: 4-4-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by PHILOU Zrealone
Fullerenes:
N-20
N-60
Aromatic:
N-6
Have equivalent N and many symetry axis!
That play strong role in stability!
As soon a dissymetry occurs bond lenght may become unequal and explosive decomposition occure! |
It is funny, because you cannot say if some fullerene or it's derivative is aromatic. These compounds have more or less aromatic character. As
far as i know, polyazafullerenes have not been isolated. There are only some theoretical calculations on them.
|
|
|
PHILOU Zrealone
International Hazard
Posts: 2893
Registered: 20-5-2002
Location: Brussel
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bis-diazo-dinitro-hydroquinonic
|
|
Stronger than stronger; they should theoricise:
N6 aromatic ring entrapped inside N20 fullerene itself trapped inside N60 fullerene!
This would make a nice matriochka structure!
N(N(N6)20)60 thus inside a N60 volume the equivalent of N-86!
    
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
|
|
|
mykhal
Harmless
Posts: 23
Registered: 4-4-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Wow, you mean nitrogen onions - analogous to carbon bucky onions. But have on mind that everything you create in your favorite molecular modelling
program deos not necessarily have to exist.
Matriochka structures and endohedral fullerene derivatives are commonly noted following way - in case of your hypothetical (but who knows? :)
"compound" : N<sub>6</sub>@N<sub>20</sub>@N<sub>60</sub>
|
|
|
PHILOU Zrealone
International Hazard
Posts: 2893
Registered: 20-5-2002
Location: Brussel
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bis-diazo-dinitro-hydroquinonic
|
|
Yep for now theoricising!
50 years ago hexanitrobenzene was view of the mind; but a few decades ago it has been done!
It was only 8 years ago; synthesis of octanitrocubane was tought to be impossible! Now it is done!
N5 compounds follows the same pathway!
....
So as soon as N6, N20, N60 have been done (in a century or more less I hope) I
have already the idea to put them in each other!
Just theorically, I wonder what is the properties of N6@N20@N60 vs N6, N20 and/or N60?
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
|
|
|
jrdobbs
Harmless
Posts: 1
Registered: 1-12-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
poly nitro fullerenes
Earlier it was stated "it seems impossible to nitrate carbon-fullerenes to an extent that they could be used as explosives". Why should
that be?
[Edited on 1-12-2004 by jrdobbs]
|
|
|
JohnWW
International Hazard
Posts: 2849
Registered: 27-7-2004
Location: New Zealand
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
It would be impossible to obtain an N60 isoelectronic with C60, with each N pentavalent and bonded to 3 others by 4 resonating covalent bonds, because
it would be a quaternary ammonium cation bearing 60 positive charges, one on each N, for that to happen, N60(60+). The internal repulsion would be too
great. But you may be able to get a N60 formed entirely of trivalent nitrogen, each N bonded to 3 others by 3 covalent bonds with a lone pair of
electrons on each N, isoelectronic with completely hydrogenated C60. Subjecting solid N2 to extreme pressure might do it, but you would be at least as
equally likely to get an infinite planar hexagonal lattice of Ns, or an electrically-conducting linear polymer, (-N=N-N=N-N=N-)n.
Other possible related compounds would include borazofullerene, B30N30, with alternating B and N atoms, isoelectronic with C60, and positive charges
on the pentavalent Ns and negative charges on the trivalent Bs. It would be similar to the graphite form of BN (which also has a diamond form as hard
as real diamond).
Also, at least one carbon in C60 could be replaced with N+ to form a singly charged quaternary ammonium cation, C59N+. Assuming that it is possible to
replace the maximum number of Cs with N+s such that no N+ is bonded to another N+, substitution up to C45N15(15+) should be possible.
|
|
|
neutrino
International Hazard
Posts: 1583
Registered: 20-8-2004
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: oscillating
|
|
That’s what the articles mostly talked about. I'm thinking that this thread should be renamed to ‘azo-fullerenes” to avoid further
confusion.
I don’t think your N-N=N-N=N chair would be very stable. Judging by the atomic shape, this would be like one big peroxide molecule waiting to go
off.
IIRC, hexagonal BN is soft like graphite. Cubic BN is the one with diamond-like hardness (in fact, it is second only to diamond).
|
|
|
Marvin
National Hazard
Posts: 995
Registered: 13-10-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
There is a better thread on why complex nitrogen structures akin to N60 don't occur.
BN is indeed isoelectronic with C2 and some resemblence occurs. Aromaticity is neerly non existant though with borazine simply adding to HCl for
example. Rings in fullerenes are virtually non aromatic anyway and the reason has been given that its due to the system not being planar. Halogens
tend to hydrolyse from the surface on contact with water for example. Before the bubble burst on all the initial ideas for fullerenes in the early
90's I asked about the possability of borazine type fullerenes and the reply gave me a classic "DOH!" moment. The required alternating
B N B N system cant exist throughout because fullerenes have (and unavoidably require) pentagons.
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
