The_Davster
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Flexible heating elements
I grabbed on of these out of my universities junk pile(actually a junk room )
today, it has a plug on each end and is encased in a white flexible woven tube of sorts. Is there any risk that the insulation on this could be
asbestos? As if it is I do not want to use/keep/touch it...
I have done some googling, and am unable to find out.
[Edited on 20-4-2006 by rogue chemist]
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Fleaker
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Sounds like heating tape, there exists the possibility that it could be asbestos, but if it is, it's most likely the longer fibers which are far safer
than the shorter type. I have several asbestos things (from heating mantles, to tong covers etc.) and I must say, the danger is exaggerated. My
asbestos covered material is actually rather grey in appearance, not really white. Perhaps yours is some sort of cotton terry cloth, that's usually
good till 180*C.
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DrP
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I must say, the danger is exaggerated.
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I'll second that - that dangers have been blown way out of proportion by the health and safety idiots. It is true that years later people are dying
because they used to ignore the asbestos dust which built up in factories. This however was DUST and fine shavings from sawing the stuff all day -
it used to settle on factory floors like snow!! Housewives would get ill because of the amounts of dust that would be taken home on cloths - they
became exposed when doing the laundary. A friend of mine told me that as a child - they played in the stuff as if it was snow! (He has bad lung
problems as a result now) - Obviously dangerours.
The blocks and sheets which have the long fibres all stuck together with a binder???? I wouldn't say that short term exposure to that could be
dangerours as long as you don't saw teh stuff up leaving yourself exposed to the dusts. If the insulation is in a casing how can it be dangerours?
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a_bab
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I also agree about the exagerations.
I mean, cmon, it wouldn't bite if you touch it for god sake... You've been brainwashed my friend.
I also have some azbestos stuff, and unless it becomes airborne, there is no danger.
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The_Davster
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Fleaker, could you post a picture of your asbesots heating mantle? I have been looking for a picture to compare with my heating mantle.
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unionised
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All those exagerations are on about the single largest cause of work related death in the UK.
Roughly 10 people in the UK will die from its effects today; another 10 tomorrow and so on. Perhaps you would all like to explain to the families of
those left behind that it isn't a problem.
It's probably worth avoiding the stuff if you can.
Anyway, in my experience those heating elements are insulated with glass fibre.
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Mr_Benito_Mussolini
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In general, the best thing to do with asbestos is burial in a proper site. The fibres are of such a size that they are not eliminated from the lung
and remain in situ causing constant inflamation and hence cancer. Yes, an asbestos gauze or heating element probably won't yield many airborne fibres
but you never know where it is going to go or who is going to end up playing with it over the future years. Do everybody a favour and dispose of the
stuff properly.
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Fleaker
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I do not know if it is as many as you think.
According to this:
http://www.hse.gov.uk/statistics/causdis/asbfaq.htm#fatalcou...
published by your own government, ten people do not die everyday. You did exaggerate, but still, according to the article, about 5 people die per day
from asbestos-related cancers (but, also in the article, it mentions that many are smokers and cites that as a causitive effect).
All in all, I think the largest cause of lung cancer in the UK would be your nation's prolific smoking habit. Mesothelioma is directly related to lung
cancer and the article states that for almost every mesothelioma case there is cancer that follows. (Mesothelioma *is* cancer)
I'm sure I've said this before, but chronic exposure is far different that intermittent. Granted, these fibers do not metabolise and remain in the
lungs for a very long time, but it is my understanding that there is a threshhold to it. Eitherway, I'm with you on this: avoid asbestos if you can or
at least wear a particulate mask when you are working in a scenario that may produce its fibers.
[Edited on 16-8-2006 by Fleaker]
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unionised
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I did not exagerate; the figures I used were those produced by HSE.
A quick quote from that site.
"So what does HSE now think the current annual total number of asbestos related cancer deaths is?
In 2003 (the latest year with published data) there were 1874 mesothelioma deaths. Adding an equivalent number of lung cancers brings the total to
3748. Using this exact figure would imply much more accuracy than is truly the case. Even rounding to the nearest hundred -- 3700 -- overstates our
certainty if it is taken to imply the true number is larger than 3600 and smaller than 3800. Thus we suggest "around 3500" is the best available
simple formulation. "
With 365 days in a year my estimate was that there would be 3650 deaths per year.
The official estimate is between 3600 and 3800 (with a nominal figure of 3784 and a ballpark figure for press releases etc of 3500).
I am, if anything, understating the number of deaths.
Of course, if you ignore the other half of the deaths (other cancers, rather than mesothelioma) you get roughly 5 deaths a day. If you add the other
related deaths from enhanced rates of other lung diseases the toll is even higher.
While I'm at it.
"but it is my understanding that there is a threshold to it"
Based on what?
My understanding is that a fibre induces changes in a single cell which then, because of this damage, goes rogue and forms a cancer. Given the size of
the cells and fibres (they are roughly comparable) it's difficult to see how there is a threshold.
If you were really really unlucky a single fibre in your lung might lead to cancer. In a way, it always does- the cancer started out as one cell and
that cell wasn't big enough to have interacted with more than one fiber.
The one thing we seem to agree on is that "less is better".
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Mr_Benito_Mussolini
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As I understand, there is chronic inflammation at the site of the fibre, and it is this chronic inflammation that can trigger the cancer. The risk of
cancer being induced is then proportional to total fibre inhalation and there is no theshold as there is with ionising radiation.
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Fleaker
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"Of course, if you ignore the other half of the deaths (other cancers, rather than mesothelioma) you get roughly 5 deaths a day. If you add the other
related deaths from enhanced rates of other lung diseases the toll is even higher."
That is what I was basing it off of, but nonetheless, I'll accept criticism and correction from someone who is obviously far more informed. From what
I remember there are two forms of asbestos, the longer fibered (and therefore less of an inhalation risk) Chrysotile and the more dangerous, and I
think banned amosite. Everything that I've personally used was the latter.
I'm curious as to what you say about silicosis?
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unionised
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Blue asbestos (croccidolite) is even more nasty than the white and brown forms.
Silicosis is a major problem. Since silica is a major component of the eath's crust you can't ban it. Asbestos is easier from that point of view.
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