BobD1001
Hazard to Others
Posts: 182
Registered: 29-3-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Canned Air - Hydrofluoric Acid
Earlier tonight I was working with canned air dusting out my computer when some of it caught fire. The fire caused no damage and quickly extinguished
however this was is a relatively enclosed room. Shortly after I noticed an acidic smell like vinegar or the like. I quickly opened both windows,
turned on the ceiling fan, and aired out the room very well. After just researching the contents of the can a bit, it appears Difluoroethane is the
main component of the duster, which according to data sheets produces Hydrofluoric Acid upon decomposition.
My question now is to safety: the exposure was very short and not even enough to make me sneeze or cough, just enough to notice some acidic smell. At
this low level I'm assuming I should be okay as I'm not feeling any ill affects, but is there reason to believe otherwise?
|
|
|
woelen
Super Administrator
Posts: 8014
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: interested
|
|
If you just smelled something acidic it and experience no adverse effects, then you should not worry. HF indeed is very toxic, but you inhaled so
little that you will not have any nasty effects.
|
|
|
BobD1001
Hazard to Others
Posts: 182
Registered: 29-3-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Thank you Woelen. My hastily performed research told me that I should be okay, but I wasn't quite sure of just how toxic it was. I believe what I
smelled was right at or just above the odor threshold of 0.5-3ppm.
Quite scary however and in the future I will certainly stick to using compressed air rather than this "canned-air" Difluoroethane. Scary that the
layperson would have not even known to research what fumes they were smelling.
|
|
|
CuReUS
National Hazard
Posts: 928
Registered: 9-9-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by BobD1001  |
Quite scary however and in the future I will certainly stick to using compressed air rather than this "canned-air" Difluoroethane. Scary that the
layperson would have not even known to research what fumes they were smelling. |
most people think that canned air is actually "air" that has been compressed
but ,you would need a lot of pressure to be able to compress air and than put it in a can
so they use hydroflourocarbons which can be compressed easily
i once read about an incident in which someone's house had caught fire and although the person and been pulled out from the blaze,he had passed out
due to smoke inhalation 
one of his neighbours tried to give him CPR using a can of canned "air" ,thinking it was O2 or something 
i doubt whether he survived
but look on the bright side
this could be used as a potential OTC source for HF
EDIT
i was under the impression that HF was OTC ,or atleast easily available as they liberally use it in "breaking bad" to dispose of men and machine
also BOB,be careful while using compressed air for cleaning your computer
the air might come out with such force that your computer's cooling fan might come off its pivot
[Edited on 10-12-2014 by CuReUS]
|
|
|
woelen
Super Administrator
Posts: 8014
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: interested
|
|
I did an experiment some years ago. I burned some of the gas in excess air and kept a piece of glass above it. It became frosty, due to formation of
HF.
C2H4F2 gives CO2, H2O and HF, when burnt completely.
|
|
|
subsecret
Hazard to Others
Posts: 424
Registered: 8-6-2013
Location: NW SC, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Human Sadness - Julian Casablancas & the Voidz
|
|
This could be a potential route to concentrated solutions of HF. One problem is that canned air is expensive IIRC.
Fear is what you get when caution wasn't enough.
|
|
|
Morgan
International Hazard
Posts: 1694
Registered: 28-12-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Hydrofluoric acid burn resulting from ignition of gas from a compressed air duster.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14501419
|
|
|
BobD1001
Hazard to Others
Posts: 182
Registered: 29-3-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
That was one of the very few articles I was able to find similar to my experience, which needless to say scared me a bit more... hence leading to my
original post. However I'm still alive and breathing well!
As to the other posts regarding the production of HF solutions utilizing the decomposition of Difluoroethane: it would certainly be a viable method in
my opinion, as I can say the small amount which decomposed in this accidental experiment was able to make my room seem quite acidic. The only impurity
I could foresee given that the decomposition products are CO2, H2O and HF would be the bitterant that they add to stop drug huffers.
Having said that it is something I would never try, far too much risk dealing with HF gas for my taste.
|
|
|
subsecret
Hazard to Others
Posts: 424
Registered: 8-6-2013
Location: NW SC, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Human Sadness - Julian Casablancas & the Voidz
|
|
If you got the gas stream hot enough, then the bitterant would decompose to CO2.
Fear is what you get when caution wasn't enough.
|
|
|
Fantasma4500
International Hazard
Posts: 1681
Registered: 12-12-2012
Location: Dysrope (aka europe)
Member Is Offline
Mood: dangerously practical
|
|
not very clear acute effects, at least.. they would take long time and be practically impossible to notice, no matter how much people disagrees about
fluorides toxic effects
vinegar.. thats really interesting.. i have actually wondered a whole lot about how HF smells, being fluorophobic that notation is .. gold!
actually i just came across this difluoroethane, and wanted to spread the word, apparently its not that unknown.. pretty interesting OTC source of
fluor, no damn wonder they sell canned air that expensively haha.. now im just above happy that i chose to put together a smaller gas canon to clean
my computer with, one shot gets all the dust out of the cooler for my CPU, very reccomended! half litre coca cola PET bottle and a 10mm ID plastic
tube in the end and diesel start does it in one hit
about price:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Ultra-Duster-Canned-Air-6-Cans-10-oz-...
but honestly, i cant believe they would allow such overly insanely nasty shit to get in the hands of innocent unknowing civilians, chemical hypocrisy
is a reality, but difluoroethane meant to be dispersed in areas without ... very intense safety is just the dumbest thing i have ever heard, beyond my
imagination! cant believe this
|
|
|
j_sum1
Administrator
Posts: 6321
Registered: 4-10-2014
Location: At home
Member Is Offline
Mood: Most of the ducks are in a row
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Antiswat |
but honestly, i cant believe they would allow such overly insanely nasty shit to get in the hands of innocent unknowing civilians, chemical hypocrisy
is a reality, but difluoroethane meant to be dispersed in areas without ... very intense safety is just the dumbest thing i have ever heard, beyond my
imagination! cant believe this |
I can't believe the stuff is labelled "air"! That is just irresponsible.
|
|
|
Bert
Super Administrator
Posts: 2821
Registered: 12-3-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".
|
|
"Air dusters"
http://www.sisweb.com/referenc/msds/dustoff.pdf
Flammable limits: 3.9 - 16.9% by volume , ignition 454 C (849 F)
Sweet Jesus. DuPont put THIS out for the ignorant public to spray into (potentially powered up) electronic devices?!
Get a small air compressor, tank and "blow gun". Cheaper in the long run if you just want to blow dust out of equipment- And you can inflate tires or
sports equipment with these as well.
[Edited on 16-12-2014 by Bert]
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
|
|
|
Morgan
International Hazard
Posts: 1694
Registered: 28-12-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I happened to notice a 10 ounce can of this Ultra Air Duster for $4.99 at a Harbor Freight store today and read the caution label just out of
curiosity/because of this thread that was started. The label mentioned a bitterant to discourage inhalation as well as the flammable in certain
circumstances caution.
http://www.harborfreight.com/10-oz-ultra-duster-industrial-s...
|
|
|
The Volatile Chemist
International Hazard
Posts: 1981
Registered: 22-3-2014
Location: 'Stil' in the lab...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Copious
|
|
Sheesh. Interesting application.
I hope it has a stronger smell than vinegar, since I started in amateur chemistry, my ability to smell vinegar has decreased rapidly. I have no clue
why.
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
