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Fantasma4500
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Natural doomsday mechanics?
yeah, with that title i better put something worthy up.. indeed
thing is i managed to come across the importance of awareness of methane-hydrate stuck in permfrost under the northern hemisphere
http://arctic-news.blogspot.dk/2013/08/historic-killer-metha...
even russian scientists has decided to call it a ''potential catastrophe''
now i dont know how the rather average persons most of us happens to be can help this overly gigantic issue, others than simply understand it,
recognize it and perhaps help spread the message
decided to post something on it here when i read
''There should be a hue and cry from the entire scientific community to not allow this. Presently, it is failing to do so.''
whole thing summed up: total heat content rising, methane released, more heat, more methane - everyone dies.
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Varmint
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Ah, the global warming religion still busy trying to find angles to capture some level of relevancy.
The gig is up guys. We understand you are a branch of the anti-capatilist movement, and so are not to be trusted with any data, at any time, for any
reason.
Please find something else you can put your faith in, this one makes you look the fool.
DAS
[Edited on 8-12-2014 by Varmint]
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hissingnoise
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| Quote: | | Please find something else you can put your faith in, this one makes you look the fool. |
How fucking ironic ─ a science-denying moron spewing his low IQ shite on a science forum . . . ?
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aga
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AFAIKR deep sea crustal gas hydrates and minor earthquakes were the 'final' explanation for the Bermuda Triangle incidents.
Tremor, crust moves, hydrates released from pressure, gas escapes in vast quantities.
Buoyancy disappears pretty fast in highly methane gassed seawater, sinking boats.
A methane/air mixture higher in the atmosphere ignited by plane engines, boom ... plus some flashes of light.
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Varmint
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Ah, now only smart people have the capability to believe in global warming/anthropagentic global warming/climate change?
Trouble is, all the smartpeople have already figured you guys out. It's too late. Your mission has failed.
You'll have to find another angle to attack capitalism, comrade.
DAS
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mayko
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Methane clathrates have also been considered as a factor in previous episodes of rapid climate change, such as the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum
Figure 1. Svante Arrhenius, known pinko
al-khemie is not a terrorist organization
"Chemicals, chemicals... I need chemicals!" - George Hayduke
"Wubbalubba dub-dub!" - Rick Sanchez
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hissingnoise
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| Quote: | Ah, now only smart people have the capability to believe in global warming/anthropagentic global warming/climate change?
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So simple, even ordinary ignoramuses can understand it ─ but you're obviously 'special' in a very special way?
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careysub
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Quote: Originally posted by aga  | | AFAIKR deep sea crustal gas hydrates and minor earthquakes were the 'final' explanation for the Bermuda Triangle incidents. |
I believe the 'final' explanation for the Bermuda Triangle incidents was to discover there is nothing special about the "triangle" at all.
Wikipedia nails it: "Documented evidence indicates that a significant percentage of the incidents were spurious, inaccurately reported, or embellished
by later authors."*
When viewed in context with ocean areas, in terms of missing aircraft and ships in relation to the amount of traffic, there is nothing special about
it at all.
The coast of North Carolina (in the U.S.) has a much better claim for excess disappearances (but even there the reasons for this are clear).
*This is like the Oak Island Mystery - which exists entirely due to extravagantly embellished, unverifiable popular stories.
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Chemosynthesis
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I have been under the same impression as careysub.
Guys, can we please leave the insults out of the discussion? How does flaming contribute to your argument? Can we civilly cite data or rationale?
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IrC
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What science? All I see are insults and personal attacks hysterically delivered. Minus any real data. I call that 'religion' 'brainwashing'. Mindless
products of cookie cutter U. You were acting identically during the GW debates. I forgot, not GW that failed, it's climate change. But it has been
changing for billions of years. Can't blame that on capitalism. The 70's ice age? Which is it? Whats next?
I look back over 60 plus years. Need that grant tow the line. Clearly science has been hijacked for money and power, for global control worth
trillions. By a select few. They have learned to promote the science of fear. Look at the OP's post. Is it possible? No doubt. So what. Methane
explodes we all die. So what? We could have all been nuked already but we are still here. Why live in fear? We are more likely to be nuked today than
we were in the 70's. Far less stability in the world now.
In my youth I saw the science of taking risks, walking on the Moon. We no longer have brave exploits now do we? Al Gore made over 100 million with his
science of fear and failed predictions. By spewing more carbon and heat than any thousand 'regular' citizens. Science today is about proclaiming what
we must fear hysterically while we hand over our money, freedoms, way of life. Count me out.
Personally I miss the days of science being the hope of a bright future where we colonize other planets. I guess you had to be there to fully
comprehend the way of thinking 50 years ago. We saw the future of the Jetsons. Now it's what should we fear, based upon someones words without
evidence. I call it the science of gloom and doom. The old days of Apollo were better.
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" Richard Feynman
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Etaoin Shrdlu
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| Quote: Originally posted by IrC | | Personally I miss the days of science being the hope of a bright future where we colonize other planets. |
I do too, was never there, still true.
I don't understand the argument, though. Climate change has been happening for billions of years, therefore it shouldn't bother us if warmer
temperatures melt ice and release potentially catastrophic amounts of methane?
Regardless of the root cause, this could be very bad. And with our unique ability to affect the planet on a massive scale, it's possible we could do
something about it instead of sitting around saying "so what?" This is an incredible thing. This is my bright and hopeful future.
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Zyklon-A
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IrC, hissingnoise doesn't need to go into the science of anything. There's a long artical on the subject at the top
of this thread with far more information than any of us want to write.
He's merely pointing out that calling a possible catastrophe a "religion" and an "anti-capatilist movement". Is just denial and stupid. If it's wrong,
provide proof, if not try to do something productive.
Varmint, read a book.
Religion definition: the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.
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aga
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What's terribly annoying is this notion that Humans are somehow not of this Earth.
Basically We Are.
What we do, what crap we do/produce is completely Natural as regards Nature and this Planet.
Personally i think it extreme arrogance on behalf of Humans to assume that what We do is somehow 'unnatural', as if we're Gods, or even understand,
never mind control, Nature.
We're not. We don't.
Our activities are as important to this Planet as the volumes of Methane ants produce.
I would have thought that the discovery that this planet is in a Hot point of multiple ice-age cycles would mean something to intelligent people.
It's a bit Hot, it was a bit cold.
That will likely Repeat, despite what we do.
Yes, i Agree that what we do seems incredibly destructive, and Nature will address that in it's own good good time.
It'll wipe us out, and then do it all over again, as is it's Nature.
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IrC
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Not so much 'so what' as it is why live in eternal fear. The statement "our unique ability to affect the planet on a massive scale" I do not believe
however. The whole GW debate which began a decade after the coming ice age debate has now been labeled change to obfuscate 18 years of near zero
warming. Both debates cold to hot fear mongering by the same group of 'scientists'. It was hotter in the 30's, damn hot in the days of Rome, damn cold
in the dark ages. Climate change long before the SUV. How long has that methane been up there? Why did it not go up in the air during much hotter
times? Because the planet has a very great ability to self correct if not meddled with. We are like ants trying to move Everest. I would still like to
know why change has replaced warming. If the proof was so positive why the need to change the name Global Warming to Climate Change? Because they were
not getting political traction in the goal of shutting down industry when after 18 years no one could show big changes going up. Since climate has
been changing for billions of years and always will it is an easier term to use in political pursuits. I would worry far more right now about nukes
and the growing tensions in the area of the Ukraine.
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" Richard Feynman
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mayko
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| Quote: Originally posted by IrC |
What science? All I see are insults and personal attacks hysterically delivered. Minus any real data. I call that 'religion' 'brainwashing'. Mindless
products of cookie cutter U.
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uh... why would you expect any data? Varmint explicitly dimissed all data that would contradict their thesis, a priori. (Not at all dogmatic.)
| Quote: |
You were acting identically during the GW debates. I forgot, not GW that failed, |
In what sense has global warming 'failed'? Can you support this assertion with evidence and/or data?
| Quote: | | it's climate change. But it has been changing for billions of years. |
Yes, it's amazing. It's almost as though the earth's atmosphere has multiple parameters which are impacted by geochemistry.
"Humans have died of natural causes since time immemorial. Surely *this* death isn't a murder!" - the world's worst defense attorney
Several problems with that little myth:
1. It was never a majority opinion at the time - most scientists at the time already agreed that global warming was occurring.
2. The ones who thought an ice age was more likely did so with much more justification than our current crop of denialists have: uncertainties related
to aerosols were even bigger than they are now; GCMs were in their infancy; much less was known about ice-age dynamics (the Vostok cores going back
420,000 years were only drilled in the 1990's, for example)
3. The ice-age predictions only gained significant traction in the popular press, not the scientific literature. An examination of the literature
since the sixties in fact shows a consolidation of scientific opinion in favor of global warming.
Peterson, T. C., Connolley, W. M., & Fleck, J. (2008). The Myth of the 1970s Global Cooling Scientific Consensus. Bulletin of the American
Meteorological Society, 89(9), 1325–1337. doi:10.1175/2008BAMS2370.1
At this point IrC's post, we delve completely into the realm of narrative. That's not a bad thing in and of itself, but narratives are mostly useful
because they frame facts, evidence, and data, which you expect from others but provide none of yourself.
By the way, Al Gore is neither a climate scientist, nor an anticapitalist. He is a center-liberal, reformist politician who wins awards on the backs
of others. Actual anticapitalists hold him in disdain; curly lightbulbs don't exactly put the means of production in the hands of the workers, after
all.
al-khemie is not a terrorist organization
"Chemicals, chemicals... I need chemicals!" - George Hayduke
"Wubbalubba dub-dub!" - Rick Sanchez
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aga
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Ah yes. Nature at work.
Our own nature is to kill each other when there's too many of us.
Works every time.
Nature is remarkably Good at all of this Life stuff.
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aga
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This Planet is not subject to our understanding of it.
That kind of throws any concept of Scientific Proof out of the window.
Any 'consensus of opinion' would, by default, be formed outside of said window.
We simply do not know enough to make any predictions at all.
[Edited on 8-12-2014 by aga]
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jock88
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The ebola will get ya anyways.
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aga
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... or not.
Avoid rubbing strangers excessively - Alive or dead.
Should be ok unless it gets an effective airborne variant..
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careysub
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Sigh.
When highly politicized scientific topics, in these highly politicized time, come up the discussion goes all too hell doesn't it?
Climate science is on a very firm foundation and there is abundant scientific material to reference if you are going to make claims. I am
talking especially to those of you who are scoffing at the science that actually appears in peer-reviewed journals*.
And, please, no insults folks. I am talking especially to those of you who are defending the science that appears in peer-reviewed journals.
Insulting those that ignore the science actually brings you down to the name-calling level where everyone is equal, even if they have no facts on
their side.
I think maybe a site policy is a good idea for this issue, requiring that any claim on climate science be actually supported by a link to a real
science source. The quality of the links offered should tell the story pretty clearly.
*I am using this awkward, but precise, construct since terms like "accepted", "mainstream", or "consensus" that work with any other topic of science
for some reason sends global warming denialists (not an insult, if you have better descriptive term please offer) into a tizzy.
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careysub
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I am not a moderator here, but I am tempted here to don that hat as an affectation for a moment.
Remember the Science Madness FAQ:
"Do not start or perpetuate flame wars."
and
"If you are unable to cite references in support of an idea or as background to your question, the post belongs in Beginnings."
On the topic of climate science I would say posts without reference support should appear in Detritus.
If it includes insults also, it should be deleted.
Also, as a science site, those challenging mainstream science are taking on the burden of proof. Step up and own it. Empty scoffing won't cut it. Put
up or shut up.
[Edited on 9-12-2014 by careysub]
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Fantasma4500
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well hello, people.. how did this thread suddenly get derailed onto politics?
i personally find this whole methane issue very logical..
“There are no brakes. The methane release itself results as a positive feedback from another warming-generated process, the retreat of summer sea
ice. So we have global warming causing summer sea ice retreat causing offshore permafrost thawing causing methane release causing a big instant
warming boost causing endless other positive feedbacks.”
and it is described as some of you have pointed out that there is a total fearmongering run through the mass medias
but thing is.. this whole thing with methane, its not in the mass medias, and attempting to prevent this earth-runoff would mean to limit the use of
fossil fuels (possibly??) which wouldnt profit most of the largest cooperations
im a bit unsure whether this thread was purposedly derailed? because this is some of the most effective derailing i have seen in a long time.. wtf,
internet? we cant just blame all this one the lack of D-vitamins, can we?
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forgottenpassword
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I find it perfectly logical. I don't know what all the fuss is about.
A scientifically sound and reasonable conclusion.
Based on hard facts and cautious extrapolation.
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Fantasma4500
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ahah.. its taken out of context..
if you are gonna go with taking things out of context you may aswell start rewriting what i wrote
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Varmint
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http://www.co2science.org/articles/V6/N26/EDIT.php
[Edited on 9-12-2014 by Varmint]
[Edited on 9-12-2014 by Varmint]
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