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Madog
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Lead Picrate
today i made some lead picrate, i took 1.2g of PbO, some isoproply alcahol and 2g of TNP and mixed them together, then i put it on my little hotplate
made from a cofee machine and heated it, i stired and swirled it as it boiled a little. this whent on for about 6 minutes, then i shut the plate off
and came back to it 20 minutes later to find that the isoproply alcahol kinda gelied. i shifted it around a bit and it mixed, this cause it to
solidify more so if u tiped it upside down it wouldnt move (i later read that this would happen on powerlabs). then i let it sit for a couple more
minutes and poured some more isoproply alcahol on it, mixed it around and filtered. i washed it with more alcahol. now its in the filter still wet
and gooey, there seems to be a good amount there. i took a little and lit it, the alcahol burnt off and the lead picrate ignited with a pop and a
crackle. it gave that nice characteristic purple flame that picrates have
this should be dry tomarrow for me to play with it, i will tell you the results
Most people outgrow their pyro tendencies, we are the ones who\'s tendencies outgrew us.
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ShockWave
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Sounds good to me !
Can someone tell me for how long this can be stored dry or wet ?
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trinitrotoluene
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I don't think you can store it for that like maybe like a few months. I think all picrates tend to become quite senistive as they age.
TNT
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Madog
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hrm, its relatively storage stable, i had potassium picrate stored for months. maybe i will put a little lead picrate aside for a couple months and
see what hapens, do a little sensitiveity tests and stuff. i would like to see if this is a suitable primary, the main reason it interests me is
because its easy to make and seems more or less storage stable, at least alot more than AP.
btw, the ratios and structure of lead picrate on powerlabs is wrong, i basicaly used his procedure with the real ratios and it seems to have worked
well, i put it in my boiler room (the place with the heater thing for the house, its great for drying) and i cant wait to play with it
Most people outgrow their pyro tendencies, we are the ones who\'s tendencies outgrew us.
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Ramiel
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Science of sensitization
Could someone kindly explain the science behind sensitization, is it to do with a change in structure, reaction with the atmoshpere, or just
dehydration/hydration?
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kingspaz
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watch out for Pb vapour when the stuff burns....can't be good for the brain cells...
if there is any change in sensitivity it will be down to hydration/dehydration. the salts should mimic TNP in storage stability. this means they are
storage stable as a sample of TNP has not shown signs of deteriorating from 1860 (some date like that).
can anybody tell me why TNP refuses to react with Fe2O3?
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vulture
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Maybe because three TNP molecules on one iron is too strained? Besides, oxides are rather unpredictable species when reacting with acids. I would try
iron(II)carbonate if I were you.
One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
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Madog
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wow, thats a long time, i was always lead to believe that TNP would last for years but after a while it would become unstable.
i pressed a little lead picrate 9in a .40 caliber shell and crimped the front (there was only a little, it was plenty far away from the place where it
was crimped) i set it off in the sand box and it exploded nicely, i didnt find any shrapnel tho so the next one is gona go in a can or something, i
wana see how deformed it is. has anyone ever used lead picrate to detonate anything? i might try useing a gram or so to detonate some PETN or MEKP
dynamite.
Most people outgrow their pyro tendencies, we are the ones who\'s tendencies outgrew us.
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kingspaz
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if you pressed the lead picrate onto the PETN then you'd only need 0.25-0.5g and that would be plenty enough. less primary = less chance or premature
detonation.
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Madog
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ok, cool, i think i will try that. itts pretty shock sensitive, i hit some with a hammer, it actualy seems less shock sensitive than AP though, which
doesnt really surprise me, especicialy sience the lead picrate isnt really crystaline
Most people outgrow their pyro tendencies, we are the ones who\'s tendencies outgrew us.
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alien14305
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sensitive of MEKP
Hey madog, i read about MEKP dynamite in a post, i was wondering just how sensitive and stable is MEKP and ammonium nitrate? I have been thinking
about making some for fun but i am scared of the sensitivity of it being a peroxide.
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Madog
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hey, i pressed some lead picrate into a .22, and taped it to another .22 of pressed PETN so the open end of each cartridge were together. i put this
in a soda can and it didnt det the PETN, just made a pop.
hey alien. i have never detonated MEKP other than just hitting little pieces of paper soaked in it with a hammer, it is pretty sensitive. i have only
made it twice and the reason i was gona use the lead picrate to detonate some is because its easy for me to make and quick. i have never put it in AN
but it would be qite sensitive, especialy if you have a high percentage of MEKP. its sensitive, and dangerous but if you are willing to make AP then
you should definately be willing to make MEKP.
Most people outgrow their pyro tendencies, we are the ones who\'s tendencies outgrew us.
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alien14305
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mekp dynamite
Maddog, here is my idea about mekp dynamite. I want to roll some paper tubes 9.5 inches long and 1.25 inches diameter outside. I will fill it up with
11 grams mekp to 100 grams ammonium nitrate (i don't think the tube will hold this much). I'll close both ends and when i want to use it punch a hole
in the end and insert a 1 gram mekp cap into it. I am sort of worried of punching a hole in the dynamite, inserting a cap. You think this will set the
mixture off? I have done this 2 times with APAN and it didn't go off. You think this is a bad idea? From your post it sounds like mekp is a bit less
sensitive then AP.
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Madog
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hmm, do u mean if it would be dangerous to shove the cap in? no, i wouldnt say it is, people shove caps into comercial dynamite. i would shove it in,
its not gona be sensitive to friction when absorbed in AN enough to go off. its good to play it safe tho, you only get one body. if you are refering
to the 1 gram of MEKP setting off the dynamite it would work.
you have had 2 failed ignitions with APAN? or did u mean u shoved the cap into APAN 2 times and you still have hands?
do you plan to make solid MEKP for detonators? or to use KNO3/NaNO3 with MEKP soaked in it? HIgh concentration of MEKP in KNO3 is supose to be
detonateable by flame.
Most people outgrow their pyro tendencies, we are the ones who\'s tendencies outgrew us.
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alien14305
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I didn't just shove it into the apan. My friend loads them cause he is quicker then I am and he pushes it in. He pushes it into the 15% AP apan but he
is really careful and does it slow. They have failed both times. My plan was just to put 1-1.5 ml of mekp it without anything mixed in just the
liquid. I really don't want to have to press it so I am planning to use the liquid in the cap only. I know what .4 grams AP going off in your hand can
do to you. If i mix it with KNO3 will it be less sensitive? I am not even gonna crimp the cap shut, i will try to use culk of some thing else that
hardens to close the cap and hold the fuse it. Using the 11gram-100gram ratio you think it is less sensitive then commercial dynamite? How do you
think MEKP sensitivity compares to nitroglycerine?
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Madog
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it will be less sensitive to shock if absorbed in KNO3, and it wont roll around make have friction. it will probaly be less sensitive then comercial
dynamite. was ur AN damp for those charges? NG is similar in sensitiveity i to MEKP i believe, iwould like to do some tests compareing the
sensitiveity. i dont have much experiance with either of them so i cant say now.
Most people outgrow their pyro tendencies, we are the ones who\'s tendencies outgrew us.
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Madog
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oh yes, i tried to detonate some lead picrate when it was confined in paper and it failed. i think im just gonna try detonateing all the lead picrate
i have at once in a medicine bottle.
alien, we should take this conversation to the MEKP thread
Most people outgrow their pyro tendencies, we are the ones who\'s tendencies outgrew us.
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kingspaz
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the reason it failed to initiate the PETN is because it had a few mm of metal between the two explosives. this has a dramatic effect on initiation.
press the lead picrate ON the PETN. so its in direct contact. then when the lead picrate goes off the PETN will go with it.
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Madog
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no, the neck of each cartridges were together, they were in complete contact. doing that backwords would be stupid.
it looked like this
-----i====i
\
fuse
Most people outgrow their pyro tendencies, we are the ones who\'s tendencies outgrew us.
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Ramiel
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Hey, I used an ounce (that's 50 tonnes) of Leadmanganesediphoropentanoate to detonate a sandbox too!! it was k3wl!!!!
Anarchy 4 eva, RoX0r d3y boX0r
If someone can please tell me how these stories about the proverbial campfire are contributing to scientific knowledge, please tell me now and save me
the embarrasment.
Please try to keep these discussions on topic, and stop what is an awesome forum degenerating into another EW forum.
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kingspaz
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'degenerating into another EW forum'
what the fuck? you act like the forum is k3\/\/|_ and a bad place. you are obviously mistaken.
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Ramiel
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Ok, forget it.
Just that EW is only explosives/weapons.
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madscientist
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I do think that Ramiel may have had a valid point.
This energetic materials forum is more about the chemistry of energetic materials; the E&W Forum is more about the application/usage of energetic
materials. Obviously some discussion of the properties of energetic materials is acceptable here, such as discussion of how sensitive they are to
various blasting caps, etceteras. But I do think that we should try to avoid having this forum transform from the discussion of chemistry to
discussion of the usage of bangs and whizzes.
I weep at the sight of flaming acetic anhydride.
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PHILOU Zrealone
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To make picrate better use double salt reaction! Na or NH4 picrate are reacted with soluble nitrate, acetate or sulfate salts of the desired compound!
Best is to ask here what you want!
I wouldn't heat a picrate or a combination of products that might provide it!
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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Madog
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i have comcluded that lead picrate is a shitty explosive once and for all. i made it a few days ago via Na picrate solution + lead acetate solution
and it still sucks, i also tryed to dry it well, oh well, screw lead picrate.
Most people outgrow their pyro tendencies, we are the ones who\'s tendencies outgrew us.
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