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Aaron-V2.0
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KCLO3 by way of H2O + KCL
H2O + KCL ---> Electricity---->KCLO3 + 3H
Yes, no?
Mhmm, I'm going to try making a chlorate cell for a weekend project. So far my plan is simply obtain a 5 gallon bucket and get two sheets of
stainless steel sheetmetal, each in the shape of a U they will fit between each other within the bucket and will have a bolt welded to the outer plate
which will fit through the bucket's wall.
Now then, there's just two things I have to figure out. First is the electrical source, I think a car battery will work because my friend has made a
Hydrogen generator which was what I'm making just no KCL in the water. And if a car battery wont work... I can obtain a 12VDC 7Amp transformer.
Then, I have to figure out the amount of H2O to KCL so the three water molecules will release their H and bond the O3 onto the KCL. I'll check my
chemistry book...
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Aaron-V2.0
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No...
It's KCL + H2O --->Electricity---> KCLO3 6H
Not 3H. 
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vulture
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You'll need one electrode with a high oxygenoverpotential. Iron won't work.
PbO2 is an option and easy to make by electrolysing Pb metal at 3V in dilute H2SO4.
One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
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rikkitikkitavi
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or just opening a small fully charged lead acid battery and recovering the anode.
But not the maintaincefree, a cheap one is the best!
/rickard
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Aaron-V2.0
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I was thinking that rikki, I know that I can get Mn02 from dry cells but I havent checked if Mn02 is an equivelant (Sp?) of Pb02. I know it wouldnt
be hard to get Mn02... That and my dad got angry when I explained what I was doing.  Say hydrogen gas and he calls it a bomb, make a KNO3/Sucrose smoke mix and he calls it a bomb, tell him your trying to make Ascorbic
Acid/Potassium Nitrate mix and it's a non-hydroscopic rifle propellant and he calls it (You guess it!) a BOMB!
Gah, I need to ask my friend's father if I can start doing this at his place, I know he'd love helping me do this stuff.
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KABOOOM(pyrojustforfun)
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[url=http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Campus/5361/chlorate/chlorate.html]YOU WON'T FORGET THIS GRAT LINK
THIS IS THE BEST ON THE NET[/url]
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lucifer
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I did make some PbO2 anode, but it’s not an easy job and it did fail a few times.
A very good page is http://huizen.dds.nl/~wfvisser/EN/gsld_EN.html
It is important that the anode is rotating or else you won’t get a good result.
A good anode however will last very long.
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Blind Angel
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This question may look stupid but can Chlorate be used for something else than doing energy
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Polverone
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I'm not sure exactly what you are asking, but chlorates do have uses other than in pyrotechnics and explosives. They can be used in organic synthesis,
for example. I know I've seen a procedure that used aqueous NaClO3 plus vanadium pentoxide for oxidation.
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Blind Angel
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Hmm i heard that it was a realy bad oxydizer, but will search more. And also how do u make/find Vanadium Pentaoxide sound like a realy good catalysor
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madscientist
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An acidic solution of sodium chlorate should be useful for organic oxidations. I think that its effects on benzene may be of interest - and hazardous.
I weep at the sight of flaming acetic anhydride.
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lucifer
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Chlorates are used lot to produce chlorine dioxide for bleaching and disinfecting.
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Blind Angel
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Chlorine Dioxyde, ClO2?
It's not one of the toxic gas use in war?
Anyway, how do i do it with like NaClO3
NaClO3 + X with H in -> ClO2 + NaOH + X ?
/}/_//|//) /-\\/|//¬/=/_
My PGP Key Fingerprint: D4EA A609 55E4 7ADD 8529 359D D6E2 33F6 4C76 78ED |
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Blind Angel
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Sorry about the thingy i was trying to make he number appears little but dont seam to work and i can't edit
/}/_//|//) /-\\/|//¬/=/_
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madscientist
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You needed to use < > signs instead of [ ] signs.
I'm not sure what you're asking exactly, maybe this will answer your question.
Chlorine dioxide can be prepared by reacting oxalic acid with sodium chlorate. It is toxic and explosive (nitrogen dioxide was the dioxide used as a
war gas). It is a very powerfully oxidizing gas.
I weep at the sight of flaming acetic anhydride.
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vulture
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I don't know where you got it, but assuming that KClO3 is a bad oxidizer can very well get you killed. A bad oxidizer wouldn't do anything with P, but
it happens to be that KClO3 forms a very sensitive explosive mixture with P.
Contrary to popular belief, KClO4 is a worse oxidizer than KClO3. It's not the number of oxygen atoms that count. In ClO3, chlorine has the oxydation
state of +V which is far less stable than +VII (chlorine achieves noble gas configuration when -I or +VII) in ClO4.
One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
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frogfot
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Have anybody heard anything about formation of CCl4 when using graphite electrodes in chlorate cells? I got some diffuse information about
that, and try to clear it out before building my little chlorate plant.
Now, CCl4 is carcinogen which is the biggest problem. It's quite inert too, will be hard to decompose it.
Thanks for all inputs.
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KABOOOM(pyrojustforfun)
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I think electrolysis of javelle water would be faster because a lot of energy has already been consumed to make the ClO ions.
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Polverone
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But I don't think hypochlorite is an intermediate on the way to chlorate in this reaction. According to all the documents I can recall, the production
of chlorate or hypochlorite is dependent on the temperature and/or pH at which the reaction takes place. Sodium hypochlorite isn't a better
intermediate for producing sodium chlorate than sodium chloride is, even though it already has one oxygen atom added.
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frogfot
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One reliable source i've seen, said that ClO- oxidised on anode to ClO3- during the electrolysis, which happens with great rate.
Solution is then warmed to convert the rest of hypohlorite to chlorate.
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Polverone
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Perhaps I'm wrong. Can you point me to a reference?
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frogfot
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Sorry its in Russian 
But anyway here it is:
http://chembook.narod.ru/Others/KClO3.djv
I'll translate some things:
"In electrolytical production of KClO3, ClO- is oxidised at anode:
6ClO- + 3H2O + 6e- ==> 2ClO3- + 6H+ + 4Cl- + 1,5O2
Process is following: a solution of NaCl 300-310g/liter is electrolysed with iron cathode and graphite anode (without diaphragme), under 40-60*C.
Current dencity on anode 0,03-0,05A/cm2, on cathode - 0,025-0,045A/cm2. To reduce reduction of ClO- on cathode, there is added 5-6g/liter of Na2Cr2O7
and 0,5-0,6g/liter of HCl."
"Ubtained solution is then heated to 90*C, to convert the rest of hypochlorite that wasnt oxidised."
Sorry about my limited language skills
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madscientist
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I just electrolyzed 20g of KCl in distilled water for several hours using a graphite anode, a steel electrode, and a 9.6V, 900mAh direct current. When
I ceased electrolysis, I added some distilled water to bring the volume of the solution up to 100mL. I brought the temperature down to 0C, and
filtered. I then moved the filtering funnel to a different collection flask, and poured hot water through, which dissolved the KClO3, and
left most of the fine graphite powder (which came from the anode) in the filter. I boiled off the water in the solution of KClO3 which had
passed through the filter paper, and found that I had merely 1.5g of KClO3, which was slightly greyish due to a tiny amount of graphite
powder being present.
I weep at the sight of flaming acetic anhydride.
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madscientist
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I forgot to mention: during electrolysis, the temperature of the solution was from 50C to 90C, usually around 80C.
Just realized that frogfot's earlier question was never answered.
I'm fairly certain that CCl4 is not formed. I have not noticed formationg of CCl4 in experiments, and carbon is not known to
directly react with chlorine.
I weep at the sight of flaming acetic anhydride.
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rikkitikkitavi
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I do think that ClO- is a intermediate in the reaction.
At the right pH (6-7) there is enough
HClO in solution for the following reaction to take place
(1) 2HClO + ClO- => 2 HCl (aq) + ClO3-
This is the most economical route to ClO3-, seen from energy consumtion.
Other possible ways are direct oxidation at the anode or through intermediates like ClO-, ClO2- e t c but they all consume more energy per mole ClO3-.
Industry therefore use regular pH checks on the electrolyte to keep energy consumtion low.
madscientist, one reason why you had a crappy yield could be that any Cl2 formed at the anode escaped from the solution before it could react with the
OH- formed at the cathode.
(2) Cl2 + 2OH- = ClO- + Cl- + H2O
Some reduction of ClO3 also take place at the cathode, lowering the final content of ClO3- in solution. But this later will be an equlibrium.
If you titrate the solution and determine the KOH content it would be very interesting. I also had similar results when I experimented with chlorate
production.
Keeping temperature below 40 C reduces graphite anode erosion, however reaction (1) proceeds slower.
One idea could be to use a high concentration of KCl in the electrolyte so that any KClO3 formed preciptates, thus preventing it from reducing at the
cathode. Solubility of KClO3 in high conc KCl is very low..
Comercial chlorate cells use NaCl at about 300-350 gr/l.
There is several patents describing how additives like persulfates and fluorides reduces cathodic reduction too. (dont have the number right now)
/rickard
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