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aldofad
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Short-Delay Electronic Blasting System
Hello world,
please take a look at my Short-Delay Electronic Blasting System under development.
I will appreciate any comments and critics.
Happy new year!
Cheers,
aldo
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Dany
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Very beautiful work aldofad, as a first look this system has a great potential in initiating a Fuel Air Explosive. the first charge will detonate the
canister holding the flammable liquid that will be dispersed as an aerosol, then after a short delay (which need to be calculated) the second charge
detonate which in turn detonate the cloud setting a huge detonation. The most interesting part is the modifiable time for the second iniation.
Dany.
[Edited on 1-1-2014 by Dany]
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aldofad
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Thanks! But this is just the first prototype
Wow! Never heard about this. I'm going to study it...
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Dany
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you can have an idea on Fuel Air Explosive by looking at this movie (skip to 2:05)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkeOHh8AoBM
Dany.
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Hennig Brand
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Very neat! Always wanted to experiment with Fuel Air Explosives. Any chance of getting a look at the schematic?
"A risk-free world is a very dull world, one from which we are apt to learn little of consequence." -Geerat Vermeij
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bfesser
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So, you've made an electronic timer? What's so special about that? Also, detonating any quantity of lead(II) azide indoors seems not only
irresponsible but idiotic.
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aldofad
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Please be patient, this is just the first prototype. I'm developing this product for a paying committer in my country. As I'll be the real producer
until on sale, I'll put this electronic stuff on ebay at the price of production only for sciencemadness subscribed friends.
There is no reason to get now this electronic home made while you can have it industry made next month more or less.
More serious testing is also expected.
cheers
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aldofad
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Quote: Originally posted by bfesser  | | So, you've made an electronic timer? What's so special about that? Also, detonating any quantity of lead(II) azide indoors seems not only
irresponsible but idiotic. |
Its not a timer. Electric power for blast comes from remote station. Only logic is internally powered. The main carrying cable can be destroyed before
all the blast trigger fire, in such events the detonation will continue independently. At the moment there is no way on the market to get this
feature. A detonating cord can also be interrupted during explosions, more often when using delay relays.
Irresponsible and idiotic should be based on the amount of explosive involved, in the doubt terms should be more moderated. Poison is often a medicine
when used in small quantities.
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roXefeller
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Its not so much an electronic timer, but a small wire firing system that relies on charging a proximal capacitor and then shorting through the
blasting caps. Capacitors can pump out lots of current if the load resistance is small (which it is when it's a short wirelength to the cap). It
solves the problem of determining the resistance offered by the firing wire and the expense of high current wires being degraded/shortened by
repeated explosions. It makes it easier to build in the time delays in a multicharge demolition, such as the fuel air, where one charge is actuated
mseconds before the other. The variability in resistance and length makes it difficult and more expensive to achieve these short delays. The idea of
using capacitors for this is an older idea, but he has done a good job at executing it and combining with a timer.
We should nickname you 'gallagher' for all the produce you've smashed from a distance. Do you provide a comedy routine before the show?
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Hennig Brand
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| Quote: Originally posted by bfesser | | So, you've made an electronic timer? What's so special about that? Also, detonating any quantity of lead(II) azide indoors seems not only
irresponsible but idiotic. |
If it's a timer well suited to the application that makes it special. I am also guilty of detonating very small quantities of lead azide indoors, on
occasion, which isn't the best idea given the lead content.
"A risk-free world is a very dull world, one from which we are apt to learn little of consequence." -Geerat Vermeij
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Dany
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| Quote: Originally posted by aldofad | [/rquote]
Its not a timer. Electric power for blast comes from remote station. Only logic is internally powered. The main carrying cable can be destroyed before
all the blast trigger fire, in such events the detonation will continue independently. At the moment there is no way on the market to get this
feature. A detonating cord can also be interrupted during explosions, more often when using delay relays.
Irresponsible and idiotic should be based on the amount of explosive involved, in the doubt terms should be more moderated. Poison is often a medicine
when used in small quantities.
|
Is this new product protected by a patent? btw, bfesser is wright about the poisoning effect of lead when
Pb(N3)2 detonate. When you detonate lead azide indoor without the presence of wright ventilation or outside a fume hood can be
dangerous since ou generate gaseous lead that can be inhale easily. lead and mercury are chronic poison that act with time and destroy your nerve
system so pay attention to this side.
Dany.
[Edited on 1-1-2014 by Dany]
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aldofad
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| Quote: Originally posted by roXefeller | | Its not so much an electronic timer, but a small wire firing system that relies on charging a proximal capacitor and then shorting through the
blasting caps. Capacitors can pump out lots of current if the load resistance is small (which it is when it's a short wirelength to the cap). It
solves the problem of determining the resistance offered by the firing wire and the expense of high current wires being degraded/shortened by
repeated explosions. It makes it easier to build in the time delays in a multicharge demolition, such as the fuel air, where one charge is actuated
mseconds before the other. The variability in resistance and length makes it difficult and more expensive to achieve these short delays. The idea of
using capacitors for this is an older idea, but he has done a good job at executing it and combining with a timer. |
You got the point. You are correct.
I'm simply an electronic developer. I was presented some requisites to solve and respect and I've come up with this solution. The system works at 36V,
no dangerous at all. No need to calculate cable sections, resistances, ... just wait some seconds for the current to completely flow in to the
capacitors.
After that the power supply cable can be destroyed. The blasting devices will continue independently
cheers
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aldofad
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No reason for a patent. A young electronic developer can copy the product easily.
There are other electronic blasters on the market and they are cheaper than this product. The problem is that the electronic blasters today on the
market are dependent from the remote power station during the explosions. Should the main cable be damaged during blasts then you got an half
demolished site with unexploded charges.
cheers
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Hennig Brand
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So this system is a "consumable" then, since it would be destroyed in any significant blast, given the short wire length. Another thought, it is often
necessary to call off a blast at a moments notice, sometimes even moments before detonation. You still do have control do you, after initiation of the
system?
[Edited on 1-1-2014 by Hennig Brand]
"A risk-free world is a very dull world, one from which we are apt to learn little of consequence." -Geerat Vermeij
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aldofad
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| Quote: Originally posted by Hennig Brand | | So this system is a "consumable" then, since it would be destroyed in any significant blast, given the short wire length. Another thought, it is often
necessary to call off a blast at a moments notice, sometimes even moments before detonation. You still do have control do you, after initiation of the
system? |
You got the idea. Yes, this product is "consumable" and will not be cheap. They need it for building demolitions with high risk of destruction of the
main cable before the end of all the detonations.
Yes, you can call off the blast even if you have pushed the red button by simply holding that button for more than 8 seconds. Detonations start when
you release the fire button between 3 and 8 seconds. I had no commitment indications for this, so I've made up this logic by myself and I find it
good.
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aldofad
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I appreciate all critics. I'm updating the video to make a more clear description that this is not a timer.
Thanks, cheers
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bfesser
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Sorry, I didn't intend to criticize. I genuinely don't understand what's significant about what you've made. I don't follow energetic materials, but
I'm interested any time I see electronics. I look forward to learning more about your innovation.
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aldofad
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I forgot to say that the capacitors are automatically discharged on an internal resistance permanently shorted when the electronic is switched off.
Cheers
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aldofad
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If you don't understand then I'm guilty to be unclear.
The problem with all the detonation systems today is that they all rely on a main cable from remote user until all detonations are over.
If the main cable gets damaged during explosions then the detonations are interrupted.
This is true for detonating cords, Nonel systems, electric systems and electronics systems.
Please let me know your thoughts.
Cheers
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Dany
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aldofad,
what are you telling about detacord and Nonel is true, however how much is the percentage that these system fail? very small in the hand of an expert.
also the detacord is simpler to use than an electric system (this is the main advantage). But your system remain a nice idea for performing blast
operation and as i already mentioned has a potential in Fuel Air Explosive device.
Dany.
[Edited on 1-1-2014 by Dany]
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bfesser
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| Quote: Originally posted by aldofad | | The problem with all the detonation systems today is that they all rely on a main cable from remote user until all detonations are over. If the main
cable gets damaged during explosions then the detonations are interrupted. |
Thank you for the clarification.
So if I'm interpreting this correctly, your system is comprised of independent nodes, which are each capable of activating at the correct time, even
if communication with the primary control module is interrupted? I've re-watched your video, and it made a lot more sense to me this time. Thank
you. I'm curious though, why is such a high voltage (18V) necessary for the logic supply? It would be nice to see schematics, if you're willing to
share; perhaps we could suggest some optimization.
Anyway, I like your novel solution to this problem, and that it lends greater safety to sequenced detonations as are frequently used in demolitions.
Nice work! I look forward to seeing the final product.
[edit] Sorry, it seems that many posts have been made while I was writing this reply, and my questions may have been answered. I think my browser
cache is playing tricks on me... I'll take a look at the above replies. [2nd edit] Nope. Still wondering why 18V was chosen.
[Edited on 2.1.14 by bfesser]
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roXefeller
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| Quote: Originally posted by Dany | aldofad,
what are you telling about detacord and Nonel is true, however how much is the percentage that these system fail? very small in the hand of an expert.
also the detacord is simpler to use than an electric system (this is the main advantage). But your system remain a nice idea for performing blast
operation and as i already mentioned has a potential in Fuel Air Explosive device.
Dany.
[Edited on 1-1-2014 by Dany] |
Will this system improve the reliability of such operations (less complexity perhaps, would mean better reliability) or reduce cost?
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Dany
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The question here is not reliability or cost. the important question is what new applications can we explore with the improved device of aldofad. i
already mention one which is Fuel Air Explosive (FAE). As i already mention in the first post, a successful FAE event heavily rely on the delay
between the dispersing of the fuel and the detonation of the second charge. If detonation of the second charge is too quick, the cloud (fuel+air) may
not detonate or detonate partially since it is very fuel rich. On the contrary if the charge detonate too late, the cloud is too diluted with oxygen
which may cause partial detonation. So precise timing is needed, and this is what can aldofad achieved with his device. Now, the write delay for
ignition need to be calculated and since this delay time depend on many factors (size of the FAE, wind condition...) such calculation become very
tedious. The best choice is to find this delay time empirically, by detonating several FAE device having the same size and the same weather condition.
if pressure gauge can be found, we can monitor the pressure of the blast wave from the FAE and based on these information you can optimize your FAE.
Dany.
[Edited on 2-1-2014 by Dany]
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aldofad
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| Quote: Originally posted by bfesser | | It would be nice to see schematics, if you're willing to share; perhaps we could suggest some optimization. |
This is the PCB Layout
You see an ATMEGA328 and an optoisolator on the left.
The huge capacitor is in the middle between two 9V batteries.
At the right of the ATMEGA328 there is a big automotive relay capable of switching 40A safely, its coils need 12V to get excited and that's why I've
opted for a couple of 9V batteries.
You got right with your observation about the internal 18V, perfectly right! The ATMEGA328 only takes 5V and it is the biggest consumer. I need an
extra 7V to excite the big relay but there is no 12V not rechargeable battery with that voltage and a good amperage.
I know I'm wasting 13V in heat for most of the time. I'm still considering using a step up switching voltage regulator but it costs a lot. I'll taken
this decision later when I'm sure about what detonator will be adopted.
The whole system consumes 70mA, big relay excluded.
The capacitor is huge: 40V and 33mF of capacity!
I know that the system is tremendously oversized even for a very high intensitive detonator, but at this stage is ok. I'm still waiting for a bunch of
commercial detonators to adopt from my customer in order to better evaluate the current consumption of the detonator, but I can't stand still on the
project so I've built some detonators at home and I've no doubt that this prototypes can instantly burn any bridge wire.
Bear in mind also that I'll never rely on any commercial datasheet of a detonator, I want to test by myself in my lab, those datasheets are too much
often untrue.
The last thing I want to happen now is to fail in a demonstration at a quarry with my customer. That must not happen. Nobody is taking care of costs
or dimensions at the moment, they just want to see big explosions perfectly timed to start funding me seriously...
I will reduce the sizes of the electronic later when I'll got a sure information on what detonator I'll have to adopt.
Thanks for your interest,
Cheers
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aldofad
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| Quote: Originally posted by roXefeller |
Will this system improve the reliability of such operations (less complexity perhaps, would mean better reliability) or reduce cost?
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Well, I'm an electronic developer, I've no real world experience with detonations, that's not my job.
I'm receiving a constant feedback from my customer and what I've been told is this:
- less complexity: a lot. No cable section to calculate. No resistance to measure. No high voltage. You decide on the field the delay for each
blaster. There is no limit to the blasting devices, you just wait some more seconds to charge.
- better reliability: yes sir. There is a green led blinking indicating that the device is up and running. Another led remains ON after fire and this
is fantastic from my point of view because you can set up the entire mine field and simulate the explosions without the detonators, than you examine
each device to be sure that they correctly received the fire signal. The risk of failed detonation is reduced because every blaster is electrical
autonomous and well protected from noise.
- reduce cost: NO.
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