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KonkreteRocketry
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monosodium glutamate
any thing u can do with it ? i bought 100 grams of it cause it was only 5 dollars.
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kristofvagyok
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If someone if allergic to it, than you can get him serious health problems.
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bahamuth
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That would be like finding someone allergic to any of the other amino acids, as the free glutamic acid will surely form in the acidic environment of
the gut.
Most consensus online is that MSG allergy or Chinese restaurant syndrome is still unconfirmed and studies show no effect while other show very faint
inconclusive effects of this compound.
Either way, free amino acids do effect our brain and as such glutamic acid may do so to.
My suggestion to OP is to powder your food with it if it is food grade, and don't worry about any side effect except obesity..
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ScienceSquirrel
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A lot of foods are rich in glutamate containing proteins.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutamic_acid#Nutrient
This wil be converted to free glutamic acid in your digestive system and then absorbed.
Turkey based bolognese sauce with pasta might have a lot more glutamte than the average Chinese meal seasoned with MSG?
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Pyro
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It can make tough meat tender, I personally use it in stews, makes the meat really nice and tender
all above information is intellectual property of Pyro.  |
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KonkreteRocketry
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the box says purity over >99%, so there isnt much i can do with it ? can i get copper glutamate from it ? any ways to change it to glutamic acid ?
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AndersHoveland
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I had an idea. See the seventh post down (on page 3) in the "Nitro Nitroalkane syntheses ?" thread:
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=2995&a...
[Edited on 19-3-2013 by AndersHoveland]
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KonkreteRocketry
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any way to transform MSG to glutamic acid ?
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AndersHoveland
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You do realize that MSG is just the salt of glutamic acid? I would think you could just add a strong acid to displace the glutamic acid from its salt.
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KonkreteRocketry
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Quote: Originally posted by AndersHoveland  |
You do realize that MSG is just the salt of glutamic acid? I would think you could just add a strong acid to displace the glutamic acid from its salt.
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I only have very weak acids like ascorbic and acetic acid
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mayko
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| Quote: Originally posted by bahamuth |
That would be like finding someone allergic to any of the other amino acids, as the free glutamic acid will surely form in the acidic environment of
the gut.
Most consensus online is that MSG allergy or Chinese restaurant syndrome is still unconfirmed and studies show no effect while other show very faint
inconclusive effects of this compound.
Either way, free amino acids do effect our brain and as such glutamic acid may do so to.
My suggestion to OP is to powder your food with it if it is food grade, and don't worry about any side effect except obesity.. |
What if the effects aren't from glutamic acid per se, but from ingesting a lot of it, unbalanced by other amino acids? Most natural sources (ie, those
we have evolved eating) would have glutamic acid mixed with all sorts of other aminos; I wonder about the effects of a sudden spike of a single amino
acid.
But I agree, the main dangers are more subtle - like training people to reach for the Doritos every time they crave protein.
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woelen
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I can imagine that glutamate is capable of forming nicely colored complexes with transition metals. Try adding a solution of your Na-glutamate to a
solution of a copper salt, a cobalt salt, a nickel salt, an iron salt, a chromium(III) salt and see what colors you obtain. Iḿ not sure about
which colors you get, but I would be surprised if none of these metals shows interesting reactions with the ion.
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KonkreteRocketry
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| Quote: Originally posted by woelen | | I can imagine that glutamate is capable of forming nicely colored complexes with transition metals. Try adding a solution of your Na-glutamate to a
solution of a copper salt, a cobalt salt, a nickel salt, an iron salt, a chromium(III) salt and see what colors you obtain. Iḿ not sure about
which colors you get, but I would be surprised if none of these metals shows interesting reactions with the ion. |
Yeah ok I will try after my exams, have you ever tried any experiments on it ?
which ones u think i shall try ? i don't have a lot copper stuff,
copper acetate/oxide/nitrate/carbonate/copper metal alone - sodium glutamate ?
i think carbonate might not work, and i dont think copper will also as its less reactive than sodium
[Edited on 19-3-2013 by KonkreteRocketry]
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DraconicAcid
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| Quote: Originally posted by KonkreteRocketry | | Quote: Originally posted by woelen | | I can imagine that glutamate is capable of forming nicely colored complexes with transition metals. Try adding a solution of your Na-glutamate to a
solution of a copper salt, a cobalt salt, a nickel salt, an iron salt, a chromium(III) salt and see what colors you obtain. Iḿ not sure about
which colors you get, but I would be surprised if none of these metals shows interesting reactions with the ion. |
Yeah ok I will try after my exams, have you ever tried any experiments on it ?
which ones u think i shall try ? i don't have a lot copper stuff,
copper acetate/oxide/nitrate/carbonate/copper metal alone - sodium glutamate ?
i think carbonate might not work, and i dont think copper will also as its less reactive than sodium
[Edited on 19-3-2013 by KonkreteRocketry] |
I'd go with the acetate. The metal itself won't react (unless you let it sit exposed to air for extended periods of time), and the insoluble ones
will be too slow to react. There is still one acidic hydrogen on the glutamate ion, and the acetate will be better at removing it than nitrate.
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SM2
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you could also use it to imitate the taste (unami) of muscimol. Many Chinese restaurants have a pocket full of ancient secret so they can advertise
"NO MSG ADDED". If it comes with msg, then none is added. MSG naturally occurring in huge quantities in soy sauce and any black bean (soy) ferment.
Commercially made from autolysed yeast, adding this yeast, which is mainly MSG, is not adding MSG, technically. It's adding yeast (which contains
MSG, of which they nay say). Then there are the very similar enhancers more popular in Korea until just recently. MS inosionate MS guanulate.
Heck, they could probably use K or Ca glutamate and claim no MSG. You see, it's endless. Personally, I find MSG is only one ingredient which can
make some superb foods taste even better. But you have to pay attention to how you use it, both quantity, and what you use it with. NEVEV use with
eggs - yuck.
muscimol is a much more potent flavor enhancer than Accent. but it also enhances other things as well,, and is far more toxic per dose/weight.
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woelen
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For a copper salt I would not try the acetate. The acetate ion itself also forms a complex with copper. Try with copper sulfate or copper nitrate. The
sulfate is the most common salt of copper and it contains copper, coordinated to water only.
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DraconicAcid
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| Quote: Originally posted by woelen | | For a copper salt I would not try the acetate. The acetate ion itself also forms a complex with copper. Try with copper sulfate or copper nitrate. The
sulfate is the most common salt of copper and it contains copper, coordinated to water only. |
The complex with acetate is very labile, and the acetate is definitely suitable for the glycine analogue of what we're discussing.
http://webs.wofford.edu/hilljb/Chem%20323/CopperGlycine.pdf
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Write up your lab reports the way your instructor wants them, not the way your ex-instructor wants them.
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woelen
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It may be labile, but if I want to experiment with coordination complexes of metals, then I want to start off with a salt in which the metal is not
coordinated to some other ion. Colors of solutions tend to be different with such salts, even if the complex is labile. If e.g. the color of the
solution is green instead of sky-blue (which is the normal color of copper(II) in water), then what is the cause of this? Is it the acetate ion or the
other ion which you are experimenting with?
So, my rule is. Use a salt in which the metal is not coordinated at all, or just with water. Examples are:
copper sulfate and copper nitrate (not the chloride!)
nickel sulfate and nickel nitrate
chromium nitrate
cobaltous sulfate and cobaltous nitrate (not the chloride!)
ferric nitrate or ammonium ferric sulfate
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ScienceSquirrel
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Copper glutamate
http://scripts.iucr.org/cgi-bin/paper?a05298
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KonkreteRocketry
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They mentioned using copper nitrate with glutamic acid, but i have sodium glutamate. I think sodium glutamate can work also, but whats the balanced
equation ?
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ElectroWin
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presumably, your copper glutamate is less soluble than either ingredient, since something has to drive the reaction forward. so i assume that sodium
glutamate will work as well.
2 C5H8NO4Na + Cu(NO3)2 --> (C5H8NO4)2Cu + 2 NaNO3
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KonkreteRocketry
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| Quote: Originally posted by ElectroWin | presumably, your copper glutamate is less soluble than either ingredient, since something has to drive the reaction forward. so i assume that sodium
glutamate will work as well.
2 C5H8NO4Na + Cu(NO3)2 --> (C5H8NO4)2Cu + 2 NaNO3
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I just tried this reaction, i added Copper II Nitrate into a Monosodium glutamate solution, and nothing happened, theres no fizzing or anything, the
solution just turned blue as expected. No insolvent compounds are formed, does that suggest that there is no reaction ?
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woelen
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I would not expect any fizzling. No gas will be involved in a reaction (if any occurs at all). A possible reaction could be formation of a complex and
in that case you would observe a change of color. Apparently no reaction occurs, or the complex has the same color as the aqua-complex of copper, but
I do not think that the latter is the case.
Is your copper nitrate true copper nitrate, or does it still contain quite some acid? If this is the case, then your glutaminate may react to glutamic
acid. The acid most likely does not form complexes. It is the anionic species which usually coordinate to transition metal ions and not the free
acids.
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KonkreteRocketry
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| Quote: Originally posted by woelen | I would not expect any fizzling. No gas will be involved in a reaction (if any occurs at all). A possible reaction could be formation of a complex and
in that case you would observe a change of color. Apparently no reaction occurs, or the complex has the same color as the aqua-complex of copper, but
I do not think that the latter is the case.
Is your copper nitrate true copper nitrate, or does it still contain quite some acid? If this is the case, then your glutaminate may react to glutamic
acid. The acid most likely does not form complexes. It is the anionic species which usually coordinate to transition metal ions and not the free
acids. |
Umm copper II Nitrate hvae a weird smell, and it still exists in the solution so i suggest that nothing happened ? im sure they are both copper
nitrate and monosodium glutamate.
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Hockeydemon
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I've read on more than one occasion that yeasties will enzymatically metabolize Mono-Sodium Glutamate into gamma-Hydroxybutyric acid. People do drink
it and report a noticeable effect, but I am skeptical that is what is actually occurring. I would like to know if that is what is actually happening,
but I have 0 interest in consuming anything full of MSG, and I am unsure how to quantitatively test what is actually happening.
I'm unaware of any quantitative experiments on the matter so it would be a fun thing to share with the internet IMO if you have a safe way to test
what's going on.
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