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White Yeti
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Bacterial resistance to antibiotics.
Hello everyone,
I started a long term experiment in November of last year to investigate the effect of eugenol (from cloves) on bacterial growth.
I started chewing cloves to relieve gingivitis and I found them to be very effective in mitigating pain.
I didn't stop there, I found the taste of cloves -repulsive to some- quite pleasant. In addition to relieving pain, cloves also deter bacterial growth
and are extremely effective against the buildup of plaque. I would also like to mention that cloves did not substitute regular oral hygiene practices,
they served as a supplement (rather like gum or mouthwash).
As with all good things in life, there comes a point where all this comes to an end. Bacteria, pesky as they are, always evolve to conform to
environmental disturbances.
I was wondering....
If I abruptly switched from cloves, to oregano for example (which does not contain eugenol), would the bacteria be resistant to antibacterial
substances in both cloves and oregano? Or would the genes for eugenol resistance slowly drop out of the gene pool, at which point I would be able to
use cloves again?
I understand this is a rather strange post, but haven't found any documentation on bacterial evolution as a response to an abrupt switch from one
antibacterial substance to another.
Any thoughts?
"Ja, Kalzium, das ist alles!" -Otto Loewi
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bahamuth
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Resistance to antibiotics come from degrading the antibiotics inside/outside the bacteria in most cases. So we can simplify it by saying that the
bacteria has procured an entirely new gene, or evolved/mutated a gene that already was present. If the enzyme that is coded for by the newly attained
gene/new version is so that it attack the benzene ring in small aromatic molecules it would not help to switch to oregano in this case (lets say
carvacrol and thymol from oregano was the antibacterial stuff, and eugenol the one from cloves.) .
Read up on methicillin resistant Staphylococcus aureus, as it has procured a gene/enzyme that degrades the beta-lactam moiety and as such will work on
a broad spectrum of antibiotics.
And resistance may be from several genetic components working together, even cooperation between different species of bacteria as in certain biofilms.
My guess is that eugenol works on such a wide variety of microorganismal processes that it may never be developed a complete resistance for it.
But to your question, if the gene goes away.. No, they usually stick around for a long time, but may be negativly evolved to an un-active form of the
enzyme (if not selected for), but the gene usually stays in place, ready to be selected for and regain its former or even higher substrate activity by
random mutation, aided by the force of selection.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
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Vogelzang
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Of possible interest
http://www.naturalhealthnbeauty.com/natural_preservatives.ht...
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GreenD
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I've noticed my kratom coffee mix does not spoil after a few weeks, while coffee by itself will spoil within a few days.
Kratom has anti-bacterial properties! 
ʃ Ψ*Ψ
Keepin' it real.
Check out my new collaborated site: MNMLimpact.com
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White Yeti
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@Vogelzang, interesting. I wonder why these oils are not used in the food industry rather than sulfites and other nasty stuff. Due to all the
preservatives in dried fruits and what not, I've grown allergic to sulfites and many other preservatives. Than again, you can also become allergic to
oils, especially if they're used extensively in the food industry.
"Ja, Kalzium, das ist alles!" -Otto Loewi
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AndersHoveland
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The poor have always been, and still are, breading grounds for disease, especially antibiotic-resistant disease.
I think antibiotics should be DENIED to the poor and prisoners, unless they pay for their full course of antibiotics in advance. All too often they
start and then do not finish taking their medications because they cannot afford it.
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phlogiston
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The antibiotics given to humans (poor and wealthy) are completely insignificant compared to the amounts used for our livestock.
[Edited on 9-3-2012 by phlogiston]
-----
"If a rocket goes up, who cares where it comes down, that's not my concern said Wernher von Braun" - Tom Lehrer |
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GreenD
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Quote: Originally posted by AndersHoveland  | The poor have always been, and still are, breading grounds for disease, especially antibiotic-resistant disease.
I think antibiotics should be DENIED to the poor and prisoners, unless they pay for their full course of antibiotics in advance. All too often they
start and then do not finish taking their medications because they cannot afford it. |
wow.
ʃ Ψ*Ψ
Keepin' it real.
Check out my new collaborated site: MNMLimpact.com
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White Yeti
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| Quote: Originally posted by phlogiston | | The antibiotics given to humans (poor and wealthy) are completely insignificant compared to the amounts used for our livestock.
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Yep, I can't agree more. Some people are also growing allergic to some antibiotics because of how much is used to treat beef and chickens.
@Anders, I disagree. The breeding ground for antibiotic resistant bacteria is primarily in western hospitals. Hospitals use antibiotic after
antibiotic to treat patients with weak immune systems (HIV patients). Opportunistic pathogens infect these unfortunate people who need to use
antibiotics to live, and presto, you've got a new strain of superbugs. Only in hospitals do you really get strains of die-hard bacteria.
As an aside, does anyone think there is a substance that bacteria CANNOT evolve a resistance to? Can bacteria metabolize hypochlorite? I hope this
question doesn't attract AJKOER 
Bacteria are pretty impressive when it comes to evolving. Some bacteria have even evolved to survive in environments high in hydrogen peroxide:
http://jb.asm.org/content/185/23/6815.full.pdf
"Ja, Kalzium, das ist alles!" -Otto Loewi
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Vogelzang
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For almost two decades sinus infections have been going around in my area and I've been trying to find OTC treatments for it. I found that salt water
sprayed into my nose using a wash bottle helps, peppermint leaves aren't too effective, breathing the vapors from clove oil helps to some extent,
menthol, camphor, eucalyptus (Vicks inhalors/Vaporub) help a little bit and a half of a Cipro a day (for one or two days) is very effective, but I
need a prescription to get antibiotics and my stash is getting low. I found an old bottle of Dristan that was effective, but I don't think they sell
those anymore. Recently, I tried breathing the vapors from an old bottle of Lysol and found that it can cure the sinus infection in a couple days.
It contains orthohydroxydiphenyl (aka o-phenylphenol) and xylenols which appear to be the disinfectants. I don't think they sell Lysol with these
chemicals in it anymore. Its the most effective thing I've found next to taking oral antibiotics, which I don't like to do since I have to go to the
doctor, get a prescription and risk getting an upset stomach and diarrhea as well as having a weakened digestive system for a while after taking
antibiotics. On the Lysol bottle there's directions for using it as an external antiseptic.
 
[Edited on 10-3-2012 by Vogelzang]
[Edited on 10-3-2012 by Vogelzang]
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Vogelzang
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| Quote: Originally posted by White Yeti | Hello everyone,
I started a long term experiment in November of last year to investigate the effect of eugenol (from cloves) on bacterial growth.
I started chewing cloves to relieve gingivitis and I found them to be very effective in mitigating pain.
I didn't stop there, I found the taste of cloves -repulsive to some- quite pleasant. In addition to relieving pain, cloves also deter bacterial growth
and are extremely effective against the buildup of plaque. I would also like to mention that cloves did not substitute regular oral hygiene practices,
they served as a supplement (rather like gum or mouthwash).
As with all good things in life, there comes a point where all this comes to an end. Bacteria, pesky as they are, always evolve to conform to
environmental disturbances.
I was wondering....
If I abruptly switched from cloves, to oregano for example (which does not contain eugenol), would the bacteria be resistant to antibacterial
substances in both cloves and oregano? Or would the genes for eugenol resistance slowly drop out of the gene pool, at which point I would be able to
use cloves again?
I understand this is a rather strange post, but haven't found any documentation on bacterial evolution as a response to an abrupt switch from one
antibacterial substance to another.
Any thoughts? |
Try using fluoride rinse after brushing your teeth. Seeing a dental hygienist a couple times a year helps, too.
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White Yeti
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One interesting home remedy I have for a sore throat is a shot glass of vinegar. It's strange, but it works every time. It can upset your stomach
though...
"Ja, Kalzium, das ist alles!" -Otto Loewi
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entropy51
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| Quote: Originally posted by Vogelzang | | For almost two decades sinus infections have been going around in my area and I've been trying to find OTC treatments for it.
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Google "Grossan Irrigator". Use it twice daily with warm salt water in it and you will stop getting
sinusitis.
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Vogelzang
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Here's a good book.
http://archive.org/details/cu31924073971982
http://openlibrary.org/books/OL24187521M/Disinfection_and_th...
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Vogelzang
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Can germicidal inhalers cure pulmonary tuberculosis or at least treat the active form? See the attached references. Resorcin is also known as
resorcinol (m-dihydroxybenzene). Hexylresorcinol is a better antimicrobial than resorcinol. Ol. Pin. Sylvest. is oil of Pinus sylvestris (Scots
Pine).
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,719908,00.h...
http://www.thelampworks.com/lw_vapo_cresolene.htm
Attachment: Medical_review-Underwood-p162ex.pdf (142kB)
This file has been downloaded 776 times
Attachment: Medical_record-Terpezone-p89-90ex.pdf (419kB)
This file has been downloaded 811 times
[Edited on 2-9-2012 by Vogelzang]
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Vogelzang
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Hexylresorcinol
Monday, Feb. 23, 1925
For ten years, Dr. Veader Leonard and a group of confreres in the Johns Hopkins School of Hygiene and Public Health, Baltimore, have worked with
poisons-salts, acids, fats, with blue canisters of strange mineral, with bottles of green, fatal syrup. They sought that latter-day elixir, a fluid
deadly to germs, harmless to man, a perfect antiseptic. Last week, came the announcement that they had found and tested such a
germicide-hexylresorcinol, 50 times as powerful as carbolic acid.
Dr. Leonard began his experiments with carbolic acid, which, as is well known, kills disease germs and man with equal despatch. To resorcinol (very
similar to carbolic acid) certain "fatty" acids were linked. The result was, at first, both an excellent antiseptic and a deadly poison. As the
molecular proportion was changed, the antiseptic properties increased, the poisonous effect diminished. At last, with great difficulty, six atomical
groups of the acids were united with the resorcinol, hexylresorcinol formed.
Warily, Dr. Leonard administered some of this fluid to a rabbit. The small creature lived. He took some himself, survived. His attendants each
swallowed their doses, were not harmed. Then the antiseptic was administered in some cases of kidney disease in the Johns Hopkins Hospital. Within 48
hours, these cases were cured totally and, to all appearances, permanently. A committee of 15 learned gentlemen from the National Research Council was
appointed to conduct further investigation.
http://web.archive.org/web/20090502172303/http://www.time.co...
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Vogelzang
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Apocalyptic tuberculosis is spreading throughout the world. Prepare yourselves.
TB timebomb (click to look inside)
http://www.amazon.com/Timebomb-Epidemic-Multi-Drug-Resistant...
Drug-resistant tuberculosis a "time bomb," WHO chief says
http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=drug-resi...
Tuberculosis: "The Captain of All These Men of Death"
http://www.paho.org/English/DD/PIN/Number1_article5.htm
You can see a world-wide map of TB incidence rate next to the grim reapers here. Enlarge to see more detail.
http://cmspath.edu/rfc/lectures11-12/garon/pulmonary/garon-t...
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=Apocal...
[Edited on 2-9-2012 by Vogelzang]
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bquirky
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*yawn* just like swine flu killed us all
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triplepoint
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I do not blame you for having a healthy skepticism, but that does not mean there is no cause for concern. It is indisputable that there is a large TB
problem. Even if it does not take over the world, it is still worthy of attention. These days, when populations have the ability to move around very
freely, someone else's problem can quickly become your problem.
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Vogelzang
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According to this article, this girl had to have a lung removed because of TB. I don't know if they would have done that in the US. They didn't
think it was TB at first, but gradually got worse.
http://www.metro.co.uk/news/39729-britain-at-risk-from-tb-ti...
Some people have been known to have been exposed to TB a number of times and never test positive to it. Most people who become infected with it keep
it in a latent state usually for years or decades. 10% of the latent TB become active. Latent TB isn't contagious, but it is when its in the active
state.
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Vogelzang
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I had a strange dream this afternoon during a nap. I usually get strange dreams after using some piracetam and pramiracetam which I usually use on
the weekends for energy. Someone who I thought was someone I knew, but hadn't seen in a couple years pulled out a gun and pointed it at me. I
grabbed the barrel and pointed the gun at him. His finger was still on the trigger, but I managed to fire the gun into his chest. An unmarked car
came by and 3 cops came out of the car. I had the gun in my hand which I dropped on the ground when the police were looking at me. There was someone
else with me who tried to run away. I told the police what happened and that I shot the guy that pointed the gun at me. I was worried about all the
legal trouble I'd get into and having to have to go to court. I woke up after that relieved it was just a dream. There must be some Freudian
symbolism in it. I was reading about TB for a couple weeks and became fascinated with it while looking at all the pictures on the internet of people
in the TB sanatariums, the now abandoned sanitariums, etc. I read through a lot of literature trying to access what the real risk was for me and
others in this area.
When I got my change back at a store I went to just an hour ago it said 666 on the cash register and I said "666!". One guy smiled and said to the
cashier something in Spanish with the word Diablo in it. Maybe its a preminition of some kind. 
[Edited on 2-9-2012 by Vogelzang]
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Vogelzang
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| Quote: Originally posted by triplepoint |
I do not blame you for having a healthy skepticism, but that does not mean there is no cause for concern. It is indisputable that there is a large TB
problem. Even if it does not take over the world, it is still worthy of attention. These days, when populations have the ability to move around very
freely, someone else's problem can quickly become your problem. |
How will it affect your stock portfolio, your retirement?
[Edited on 2-9-2012 by Vogelzang]
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bbartlog
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Those who think that TB will kill us all should first explain why it disappeared from the US and Europe. It was never really vanquished by some
aggressive and effective treatment and/or quarantines; it just sort of gradually petered out. I attribute this to the generally good health of the
populations of the modern world. Many diseases that cut a devastating swath through malnourished populations just don't have much of an impact here.
Look at the death rates for measles in Africa versus the USA, for example.
The less you bet, the more you lose when you win.
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Vogelzang
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If you're too lazy to read the links, references and what I wrote, what guarantee do I have that you would listen this time?
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Vogelzang
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oregano oil
http://heddwynessentials.com/ooo/index.php?page=home
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