▒Nick▒
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Make NaHSO4 without sulfuric acid?
I need to make sodium bisulfate, and I tried adding sulfuric acid to sodium hydroxide, but the reaction is
quite violent. I was wondering if there was a way to make it, possibly from sodium bisulfite? I have plenty of that.
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Megak
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Bubble oxygen gas into a solution to dissolve it, and react it with the bisulfite. I wouldn't expect great yields if you're using a oxygen generator,
though
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hissingnoise
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IIRC, the oxidation, by dissolved air or oxygen, of bisulphite is slow, partly because of oxygen's limited solubility.
This is quicker and more complete; NaHSO<sub>3</sub> + H<sub>2</sub>SO<sub>4</sub> --->
NaHSO<sub>4</sub> + H<sub>2</sub>O + SO<sub>2</sub>.
And you might find a use for SO<sub>2</sub>.
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Megak
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Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  | IIRC, the oxidation, by dissolved air or oxygen, of bisulphite is slow, partly because of oxygen's limited solubility.
This is quicker and more complete; NaHSO<sub>3</sub> + H<sub>2</sub>SO<sub>4</sub> --->
NaHSO<sub>4</sub> + H<sub>2</sub>O + SO<sub>2</sub>.
And you might find a use for SO<sub>2</sub>.
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this got me curious, how would one go about finding a catalyst for the oxygen reaction?
The only things that would speed it up would be properties in Le Chatlier's principle
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▒Nick▒
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| Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise | IIRC, the oxidation, by dissolved air or oxygen, of bisulphite is slow, partly because of oxygen's limited solubility.
This is quicker and more complete; NaHSO<sub>3</sub> + H<sub>2</sub>SO<sub>4</sub> --->
NaHSO<sub>4</sub> + H<sub>2</sub>O + SO<sub>2</sub>.
And you might find a use for SO<sub>2</sub>.
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Thanks for the feedback. I'll try this tomorrow, adding a strong acid to a mild acid should be better than adding a strong acid to a strong base!
Adding sulfuric acid to conc. sodium hydroxide solution will cause it to instantly boil make a thunderous noise! I let you know how it went tomorrow.
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▒Nick▒
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I hate how these chemical names are so similiar! I actually needed to make sodium bisulfite out of sodium bisulfate, if its possible! Deeply sorry
about that.
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UnintentionalChaos
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| Quote: Originally posted by ▒Nick▒ | | I hate how these chemical names are so similiar! I actually needed to make sodium bisulfite out of sodium bisulfate, if its possible! Deeply sorry
about that. |
Not really. Sodium metabisulfite (Na2S2O5) hydrates in water to sodium bisulfite and is extraordinarily cheap.
In fact, metabisulfite is significantly more stable than bisulfite in the solid phase and even aldrich reagent sodium bisulfite is a mix of actual
bisulfite and metabisulfite. Assay is provided on SO2 content to make measuring possible.
[Edited on 12-12-11 by UnintentionalChaos]
Department of Redundancy Department - Now with paperwork!
'In organic synthesis, we call decomposition products "crap", however this is not a IUPAC approved nomenclature.' -Nicodem
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hissingnoise
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Bisulphites cannot be prepared from bisulphates as the reduction, being auto-catalysed, produces sulphides.
Leading SO<sub>2</sub> to a solution of hydroxide or carbonate will give bisulphite.
But, as UC said, hydrolysis of metabisulphite is convenient . . .
[Edited on 12-12-2011 by hissingnoise]
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AndersHoveland
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NaSO4H is sold inexpensively in pool supply stores, where it is used to lower pH.
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▒Nick▒
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Do they sell sodium metabisulfite in any hardware stores or anything? If not I'll just get it online.
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sternman318
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| Quote: Originally posted by ▒Nick▒ | | Do they sell sodium metabisulfite in any hardware stores or anything? If not I'll just get it online. |
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202022334/h_d2/Produ...
Sodium pyrosulfite= sodium metabisulfite, you're in luck!
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Arthur Dent
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Two sources for what you are seeking:
Sodium Metabisulfite is often found at wine-making / beer-making supply stores, the Sodium Metabisulfite is used as a preservative in the bottling of
homemade wine. Some places also sell Potassium metabisulfite, but it's usually much more expensive and it does the same thing.
Sodium Bisulfate is found at pool supply stores for adjusting water pH downwards. I bought a 1 Kg jar recently and it's quite inexpensive.
Robert
--- Art is making something out of nothing and selling it. - Frank Zappa ---
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jsc
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You realize of course that sea urchins consider sodium bisulfate a weapon of mass destruction.
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▒Nick▒
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Thanks for the info! I go to home depot a lot, seems like the best place to get it.
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Sedit
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It makes no sense to attempt to convert either chemical to one or the other considering home depot sells both of these in large quantity very cheaply
if you go just buy what you are after instead of trying to convert one to the other.
Knowledge is useless to useless people...
"I see a lot of patterns in our behavior as a nation that parallel a lot of other historical processes. The fall of Rome, the fall of Germany — the
fall of the ruling country, the people who think they can do whatever they want without anybody else's consent. I've seen this story
before."~Maynard James Keenan
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▒Nick▒
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| Quote: Originally posted by Sedit | | It makes no sense to attempt to convert either chemical to one or the other considering home depot sells both of these in large quantity very cheaply
if you go just buy what you are after instead of trying to convert one to the other. |
I'm not, I didn't know places sold sodium metabisulfite. If I can buy a chemical locally, I don't bother making it.
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Sedit
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I understand, I'm just making a point that its not only the fact that it is sold locally but they are both sold in the same store. That would make it
highly odd to attempt the conversion of one to the other when you could walk a few isles over and grab the other.
It's akin to walking in the liquor store and trying to convert your Wisky into everclear... Just buy the everclear instead, right?
Knowledge is useless to useless people...
"I see a lot of patterns in our behavior as a nation that parallel a lot of other historical processes. The fall of Rome, the fall of Germany — the
fall of the ruling country, the people who think they can do whatever they want without anybody else's consent. I've seen this story
before."~Maynard James Keenan
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