Adas
National Hazard
Posts: 711
Registered: 21-9-2011
Location: Slovakia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sensitive to shock and friction
|
|
Strange feeling in lungs after hydrogen
Hello SM,
Today I made some hydrogen by the Al/NaOH/water method. I collected it in balloon, I cleaned it with cold water and then I breathed it to have high
voice. But now I feel something in my lungs, I can't describe it.
Is this caused by impurities or the hydrogen itself? Or is it just "placebo effect"? 
Thanks in advance.
|
|
|
resveratrol
Hazard to Self
Posts: 65
Registered: 6-11-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
physical asphyxia
|
|
|
Luftwaffe
Harmless
Posts: 31
Registered: 23-8-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: Curious
|
|
It's quite possible that the bubbling caused by the liberation of H2 formed an aerosol which contains NaOH. The exposure would be dependant on the
molarity of the NaOH solution you made and how much you breathed in.
I took the liberty of searching the experiment and found a quote " Do not breathe in fumes, the vapor is harmful because it contains NaOH."
Heres the link: https://sites.google.com/site/sed525s/demonstrations/exother...
You may be experiencing some lung inflammation.
|
|
|
Adas
National Hazard
Posts: 711
Registered: 21-9-2011
Location: Slovakia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sensitive to shock and friction
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by Luftwaffe  | It's quite possible that the bubbling caused by the liberation of H2 formed an aerosol which contains NaOH. The exposure would be dependant on the
molarity of the NaOH solution you made and how much you breathed in.
I took the liberty of searching the experiment and found a quote " Do not breathe in fumes, the vapor is harmful because it contains NaOH."
Heres the link: https://sites.google.com/site/sed525s/demonstrations/exother...
You may be experiencing some lung inflammation. |
But I was doing it in large wine bottle = almost no vapors went to the balloon + I put some cold water into the balloon and shaked well.
And IF I breathed some NaOH, is it very bad? :/ My lungs don't hurt, I just feel kind of discomfort..
[Edited on 6-12-2011 by Adas]
|
|
|
Luftwaffe
Harmless
Posts: 31
Registered: 23-8-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: Curious
|
|
Well you can read the MSDS's if you want to scare yourself to death. But in this case I think you'll be fine.
|
|
|
hissingnoise
International Hazard
Posts: 3940
Registered: 26-12-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: Pulverulescent!
|
|
If it happened me I'd have it checked out!
|
|
|
Endimion17
International Hazard
Posts: 1468
Registered: 17-7-2011
Location: shores of a solar sea
Member Is Offline
Mood: speeding through time at the rate of 1 second per second
|
|
There was some sodium hydroxide aerosol left, obviously. And lungs, together with the whole body filled with chemical receptors is quite sensitive for
these things.
Don't inhale hydrogen. One mistake (static electricity, you never know) and you die in a painful fashion.
|
|
|
Adas
National Hazard
Posts: 711
Registered: 21-9-2011
Location: Slovakia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sensitive to shock and friction
|
|
Thank you, guys. I took a shower and I feel better now. I will never inhale hydrogen again, lol. I'd rather send H2 balloons with messages into the
atmosphere xD
I should have washed it with vinegar instead of plain water
EDIT: It also diminished my taste
[Edited on 6-12-2011 by Adas]
|
|
|
kuro96inlaila
Hazard to Self
Posts: 96
Registered: 21-6-2010
Location: Malaysia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Quietly thinking
|
|
If you want to experiment with high voice,just go for helium.It is easy to get and far much more safer than hydrogen.
|
|
|
White Yeti
National Hazard
Posts: 816
Registered: 20-7-2011
Location: Asperger's spectrum
Member Is Offline
Mood: delocalized
|
|
I know that there are no adverse effects associated with breathing helium (as long as you breathe deeply after every lung-full of helium), but every
time I breathe in helium, my arms and hands start to tremble uncontrollably. Does anyone have an idea as to why this is?
I had similar symptoms when I experimented with H2S, but that was mostly due to a mild panic attack after partially losing my sense of smell.
"Ja, Kalzium, das ist alles!" -Otto Loewi
|
|
|
Adas
National Hazard
Posts: 711
Registered: 21-9-2011
Location: Slovakia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sensitive to shock and friction
|
|
I got the same with this hydrogen! That's probably because body is in shock due to lack of oxygen. And I thought that it was because of the NaOH, lol.
|
|
|
Neil
National Hazard
Posts: 556
Registered: 19-3-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Diffusion; you are de-oxygenating your blood and tissue as oxygen leaves the blood for the oxygen free helium, rapid hypoxia results.
The danger of inhaling N2,H2,He etc. Is rapid de-oxygenation not simple asphyxiation.
|
|
|
Endimion17
International Hazard
Posts: 1468
Registered: 17-7-2011
Location: shores of a solar sea
Member Is Offline
Mood: speeding through time at the rate of 1 second per second
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by White Yeti | I know that there are no adverse effects associated with breathing helium (as long as you breathe deeply after every lung-full of helium), but every
time I breathe in helium, my arms and hands start to tremble uncontrollably. Does anyone have an idea as to why this is?
I had similar symptoms when I experimented with H2S, but that was mostly due to a mild panic attack after partially losing my sense of smell.
|
It's localized hypoxia. It shouldn't happen with "perfect" bodies in this manner. It just means that your muscle tissues don't have such high
tollerance for lowered oxygen levels.
If not hereditary, or due to old age, this can be alleviated by proper exercise.
I remember my hands trembling while I had my blood pressure measured the first few times, so I've started doing some physical exercise and it stopped.
Now it just tingles.
It's a warning sign: "Don't overdo it", and I hope you respect what the body is trying to say. 
| Quote: Originally posted by Neil | Diffusion; you are de-oxygenating your blood and tissue as oxygen leaves the blood for the oxygen free helium, rapid hypoxia results.
The danger of inhaling N2,H2,He etc. Is rapid de-oxygenation not simple asphyxiation. |
That is asphyxiation. What was it supposed to be?
Deoxygenation is not a strict medical term. It means removal of oxygen. It happens during asphyxia and during poisoning with blood poisons such as
carbon(II) oxide or hydrogen sulphide or hydrogen cyanide, when those molecules are better in a competition with oxygen, and are taking over the spots
at haemoglobin.
[Edited on 12-12-2011 by Endimion17]
|
|
|
White Yeti
National Hazard
Posts: 816
Registered: 20-7-2011
Location: Asperger's spectrum
Member Is Offline
Mood: delocalized
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Endimion17 | | Deoxygenation is not a strict medical term. It means removal of oxygen. It happens during asphyxia and during poisoning with blood poisons such as
carbon(II) oxide or hydrogen sulphide or hydrogen cyanide, when those molecules are better in a competition with oxygen, and are taking over the spots
at haemoglobin. |
Actually, H2S and HCN are not blood poisons, they block the cytochrome complex at the end of the electron transport chains in your mitochondria.
That's cell asphyxiation, much more dangerous because your cells are incapacitated, even if you breathe in more oxygen, your cells cannot make ATP for
a while after being blocked.
I think there's a difference between asphyxiation and de-oxygenation; subtle as it may be. De-oxygenation is probably when you breathe in air that is
deficient in oxygen while asphyxiation is breathing in air that contains poisons that block enzymes in your body that allow you to carry out cellular
respiration.
I'm not a biology expert, so don't take my word for it.
"Ja, Kalzium, das ist alles!" -Otto Loewi
|
|
|
Endimion17
International Hazard
Posts: 1468
Registered: 17-7-2011
Location: shores of a solar sea
Member Is Offline
Mood: speeding through time at the rate of 1 second per second
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by White Yeti | Actually, H2S and HCN are not blood poisons, they block the cytochrome complex at the end of the electron transport chains in your mitochondria.
That's cell asphyxiation, much more dangerous because your cells are incapacitated, even if you breathe in more oxygen, your cells cannot make ATP for
a while after being blocked.
I think there's a difference between asphyxiation and de-oxygenation; subtle as it may be. De-oxygenation is probably when you breathe in air that is
deficient in oxygen while asphyxiation is breathing in air that contains poisons that block enzymes in your body that allow you to carry out cellular
respiration.
I'm not a biology expert, so don't take my word for it. |
I think haemoglobin gets messed up, too.
I was reffering to "blood poisons" in the warfare agent sense. HCN is in the same group as CO, though it blocks the cellular respiration as well.
As I've said, deoxygenation doesn't have a strict medical sense. It's a broad term used just about everywhere, even in the smelting industry.
Asphyxiation will occur in an atmosphere with lowered partial pressure of oxygen, whether it due to lower absolute pressure of air or just lots of
inert gasses take over a certain volume of air.
In medical terms, there's asphyxiation and there's poisoning which can even work together, and deoxygenation is simply an umbrella term, a process
that happens in both cases, whether the body is slowly depleted of oxygen because there isn't enought of it, or the system that transmits it is
blocked/destroyed, or the system that uses it is blocked/destroyed.
Slow asphyxiation will always lead to initial euphoria, and slow poisoning probably won't. That's why people doing the helium baloons laugh even more
while their lips are turning purple, and people poisoned by CO/HCN turn pink without the "happy go lucky" part. (I'm not sure if hydrogen sulphide
causes skin to turn pink...)
|
|
|
Neil
National Hazard
Posts: 556
Registered: 19-3-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
it is, technically, asphyxiation but it is much more dangerous then your everyday getting smothered with a pillow kind of asphyxiation.
Holding your breath lets CO2 collect and that tells your brain that you need to exhale - you can't detect the O2 levels from my understanding.
Inhaling something with no O2 and no CO2 means you are not going to fee the urge to breath AND your lungs are going to be operating in reverse,
actually letting the oxygen out of your blood stream and into the oxygen free air. The result is RAPID hypoxia without any urgency to breath, versus
a more mundane hypoxia caused by not breathing which lets your brain detect the rise in CO2 and send panic signals to your body.
Inhale a bit of CO2 and you'll feel an 'urgency' to breath.
Side note, Hypoxia in some folk causes a bit of a high, hence all those people who inhale oxygen blocking gasses to giggle.
Some of the lit I saw when training on the safe transport of LN2 suggested that having a failure of a Dewar seal while in an enclosed space, like an
elevator, would result in almost certain death as the air entering the Dewar caused a large amount of liquid N2 to boil turning the elevator into a
low to no oxygen area. The time to unconsciousness in some people is measurable in tens of seconds.
|
|
|
Endimion17
International Hazard
Posts: 1468
Registered: 17-7-2011
Location: shores of a solar sea
Member Is Offline
Mood: speeding through time at the rate of 1 second per second
|
|
I'd rather die from asphyxiation than suffocating. Carbon dioxide reacts with receptors in sinus caroticus, producing horrific pain and panic. I know
this shit because I almost died by suffocation, and trust me, you don't want that. People found dead after being smothered have lung lesions and
internal bleeding, and drowned people have lungs full of water because they inhale it in their last moments of agony.
Asphyxiation by oxygen depletion is one of the less nasty deaths.
|
|
|
White Yeti
National Hazard
Posts: 816
Registered: 20-7-2011
Location: Asperger's spectrum
Member Is Offline
Mood: delocalized
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Endimion17 | I'd rather die from asphyxiation than suffocating. Carbon dioxide reacts with receptors in sinus caroticus, producing horrific pain and panic. I know
this shit because I almost died by suffocation, and trust me, you don't want that. People found dead after being smothered have lung lesions and
internal bleeding, and drowned people have lungs full of water because they inhale it in their last moments of agony.
Asphyxiation by oxygen depletion is one of the less nasty deaths. |
I do agree with you, but oxygen depletion can do one of two things, it can kill you or it can cause irreversible damage to your brain and everything
else. The latter is also pretty horrid, as you might not die from it but you could potentially become an invalid for life. Whether that is worse than
death is up to you.
"Ja, Kalzium, das ist alles!" -Otto Loewi
|
|
|
Endimion17
International Hazard
Posts: 1468
Registered: 17-7-2011
Location: shores of a solar sea
Member Is Offline
Mood: speeding through time at the rate of 1 second per second
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by White Yeti | | Quote: Originally posted by Endimion17 | I'd rather die from asphyxiation than suffocating. Carbon dioxide reacts with receptors in sinus caroticus, producing horrific pain and panic. I know
this shit because I almost died by suffocation, and trust me, you don't want that. People found dead after being smothered have lung lesions and
internal bleeding, and drowned people have lungs full of water because they inhale it in their last moments of agony.
Asphyxiation by oxygen depletion is one of the less nasty deaths. |
I do agree with you, but oxygen depletion can do one of two things, it can kill you or it can cause irreversible damage to your brain and everything
else. The latter is also pretty horrid, as you might not die from it but you could potentially become an invalid for life. Whether that is worse than
death is up to you. |
Suffocation leads to brain damage, too. It's not like oxygen stays inside. It is depleted by the metabolism, and carbon dioxide won't help.
Asphyxiation or suffocation, brain damage will happen, so all we're left with is the way we slip into unconsciousness. I choose vertigo and slight
euphoria over pain and panic.
|
|
|
Panache
International Hazard
Posts: 1290
Registered: 18-10-2007
Member Is Offline
Mood: Instead of being my deliverance, she had a resemblance to a Kat named Frankenstein
|
|
given this seems to be a medico thread i'm going to ask a medico sort of question, but off topic completely from the current discussion.
What happens to aluminum shrapnel lodged in the body, are the chemical reactions know? The reason i ask is some 18months ago i inadvertently handled a
large amount of al swarf, then wore gloves for a few more hours. Lots of swarf, much of it not visible to the eye is lodged in me. Because of the
nature of swarf, you often have a kind of wire ended with a hook, all very small. I theorise that this style of swarf can worm its way deeper and
deeper into tissue as the hook prevents reversal and normal motion or movement can cause it to penetrate. Anyway i have found that an area suddenly
becomes inflamed and when i investigate its often very deep, however with no visible entry point.
I think i have been abducted by aliens.
|
|
|
Neil
National Hazard
Posts: 556
Registered: 19-3-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Most swarf migrates out. I've had steel swarf stick in, break off below the surface and then come back out so I ended up with the tail stuck in my
hand with no connection to the surface.
I couldn't find any med journals specifically on aluminum shrapnel, it seems they lump it under 'metals' and ignore it.
|
|
|
symboom
International Hazard
Posts: 1143
Registered: 11-11-2010
Location: Wrongplanet
Member Is Offline
Mood: Doing science while it is still legal since 2010
|
|
hmm probably the aerosol of LiOH formed from reaction of lithium in water.
i coughed from this too.
|
|
|
garage chemist
chemical wizard
Posts: 1803
Registered: 16-8-2004
Location: Germany
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
My teacher used to do the high voice trick by inhaling hydrogen from a steel tank since we did not have any helium at school. He did it dozens of
times over the years and never had a single health problem. So I think that pure hydrogen is "safe" to inhale from a health perspective. Of course
there's the danger of accidental ignition, but as long as that doesn't happen, you'll be fine.
|
|
|
Arthur Dent
National Hazard
Posts: 553
Registered: 22-10-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: entropic
|
|
@SthAnDraMrK : post reported...
--- Art is making something out of nothing and selling it. - Frank Zappa ---
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
