Domo_Kun
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compressed Nitrogen
I was wondering how people flushed their aparatuses with inert gases at home. Where does one get compressed nitrogen?
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Magpie
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Check the compressed gas dealers in your area. You should be able to buy or rent either argon or nitrogen cylinders of various capacities. I bought
a 40 ft^3 cylinder of argon which I can get refilled anytime. You will also need a pressure regulator, which you can get for around $50.
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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fledarmus
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Almost anybody that sells welding gases will also sell inert gases. In most places (at least in the US) there are enough garage mechanics that the
welding stores don't have a problem selling the gases to private citizens, although I have known outfits that refuse to deal with anybody that doesn't
have a contractor's license. Basically you pay a deposit and rental fee on the cylinder and buy the gas inside it - you return the cylinder when it's
empty and they give you a fresh one.
Be sure you have a safe way to transport the cylinder.
EDITED to add the following demonstration:
Mythbusters - gas cylinder
because it was cool
[Edited on 18-11-2011 by fledarmus]
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Domo_Kun
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Thank you for your answers
cool video indeed, fledarmus 
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Takron
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Paintball also uses nitrogen for some of the systems. You can look into getting a paintball tank of nitrogen if you don't want a large cylinder
hanging around. Depending on how much you use. You can get them filled anywhere that handles nitrogen.
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Mr. Wizard
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Quote: Originally posted by Takron  | | Paintball also uses nitrogen for some of the systems. You can look into getting a paintball tank of nitrogen if you don't want a large cylinder
hanging around. Depending on how much you use. You can get them filled anywhere that handles nitrogen. |
Most older paintball systems I've seen use CO2. Is there a newer system that uses N2?I have filled my son's paintball cylinders from an inverted CO2
tank. Typically the pressure is lower in a CO2 tank at normal temperatures , while N2 tanks are 2 or 3 times as high, requiring a stronger tank. The
technology might have improved, just asking.
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Takron
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| Quote: Originally posted by Mr. Wizard | | Quote: Originally posted by Takron | | Paintball also uses nitrogen for some of the systems. You can look into getting a paintball tank of nitrogen if you don't want a large cylinder
hanging around. Depending on how much you use. You can get them filled anywhere that handles nitrogen. |
Most older paintball systems I've seen use CO2. Is there a newer system that uses N2?I have filled my son's paintball cylinders from an inverted CO2
tank. Typically the pressure is lower in a CO2 tank at normal temperatures , while N2 tanks are 2 or 3 times as high, requiring a stronger tank. The
technology might have improved, just asking. |
Yeah, it is the preferred method for most professional players and serious hobby players. The higher pressure keeps a more stable shooting velocity
for more accurate firing over time. the tanks are really round compared to CO2 tanks.
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zoombafu
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Im interested as well in maintaining an inert atmosphere for reactions, so if someone could point me somewhere useful it would be greatly appreciated.
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edgecase
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I've been considering CO2 for less demanding "inert" applications, purging water and oxygen before nitric acid synthesis for example. I have access
to both argon and CO2 cylinders already, which I use for welding, as well as an adjustable regulator. Why not just go for the argon then? Price.
the CO2 is liquid, thus more "moles" fit in the cylinder. For welding it's certainly cheaper, so I assume it is also cheaper for chemistry.
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thebean
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How do you get nitrogen cylinders?
I have been wondering for some time now how I can get my hands on nitrogen for the purpose of flooding vessels during syntheses that require inert
atmosphere. I figure that some people buy it. I'm located in the USA if that helps to narrow things down.
"You need a little bit of insanity to do great things."
-Henry Rollins
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cyanureeves
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dude they should have them at your local welding supply store.helium also acetylene and oxygen.
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thebean
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Your "Dude" would suggest that you think I'm an idiot or something. I've never been to a welding store before so I wouldn't know that. None the less
your help is appreciated.
[Edited on 13-2-2014 by thebean]
"You need a little bit of insanity to do great things."
-Henry Rollins
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bfesser
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| Quote: Originally posted by thebean | | Your "Dude" would suggest that you think I'm an idiot or something. I've never been to a welding store before so I wouldn't know that.
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Well, if you had tried the search function, you <em>would</em> have known that. (That's my
polite way of saying UTFSE.)
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thebean
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I Googled it and didn't find a whole lot. I didn't know that nitrogen was used for welding and thus didn't think of that. I'm sorry I don't know
everything.
"You need a little bit of insanity to do great things."
-Henry Rollins
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cyanureeves
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sorry the bean i had no idea you could surmise all that off one tiny word but you are welcome.what really matters is that you get your nitrogen and
from now on i will use "hombre" instead of dude .Naw! i'll just use thebean
instead.
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Magpie
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http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=18034#...
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=10366#...
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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bfesser
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Threads Merged
13-2-2014 at 17:42 |
thebean
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I'm sorry that I jump to conclusions like that, I'll try to correct the behavior, and while I'm at it UTFSE more often.
"You need a little bit of insanity to do great things."
-Henry Rollins
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alive&kickin
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Bean, for what it's worth, you can get the nitrogen in welding supply shops in different size cylinders as long as moisture isn't a problem in your
experiment. If you need dry nitrogen, go to one of the specialty gas places, Airgas etc, as they contain little to no moisture. That's where I go
for my work, maintaining buried lead lined cable that has copper wire that is paper insulated, we keep it pressurized with dry nitrogen to keep the
ground water out.
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Zyklon-A
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Or you could just hook up a CaCl2 tube to the N2 output, bubble through concentrated sulfuric acid, or use one of many other
ways to rid you N2 of H2O vapor.
[Edited on 17-2-2014 by Zyklonb]
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Refinery
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Technically you can inert the apparatus with any gas that does not react with the reactants and is not an oxiziser. Propane gas would work for most
part.
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Metacelsus
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The thing with propane is that is causes explosions if you are not VERY careful (and even then accidents happen).
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Refinery
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The good thing about propane is that it's lower and upper explosive limit is 2.3-9.5%, so you will enrich the air composition inside the container
very quickly, and therefore render it unable to sustain fire. Naturally, the apparatus needs to be somewhat air-tight, but in my case this is a lot
easier - and cheaper - to come by than to buy nitrogen cylinders. Actually, I can buy at least two full sets of glassware with the price of one
nitrogen cylinder. As long as the pressure difference is ~0 inside the app, or you flow in a slight amount of propane and lead the fumes to burner or
outside with tubing, the risk is very low. Propane gas is very cheap and readily available in many different sizes.
Of course, if you were in need of inert gas, eg. welding - like argon I do - you can use it "for free" for this purpose. Argon is yet better, because it suits for *everything*, where nitrogen likes too
much of some compounds, like alkali metals. 
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yobbo II
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When you buy a tank (bottle) of CO2/Argon mix from you welding supply is the CO2 in liquid form and the Argon a gas? all in the one bottle?
How do the two gases end up being equally mixed as they come out. Would all or at least a gas with a higher concentration of Ar not come out first and
leave the CO2 to come out last.
Lastly is is safe to take a new bottle of Argon/CO2 welding gas and transfer all the contents into another (suitable) bottle by joining up the bottles
with a suitable pipe + connectors and inverting the new full bottle and placing it on top of the empty bottle thus allowing the contents to flow or
move (liquid + gas or whatever) into the lower bottle.
TFYT
Yobbo II
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adk
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I have been using Nitrogen in the past but found a supplier for relatively inexpensive 5N Argon, so I'll be using Argon now that my Nitrogen cylinder
is empty.
For about two years I was using a hose connected to a 29/32 gas inlet adapter, now i'm using balloons with a cut off syringe, needle and rubber septa.
It's much more efficient to use this method rather than just pump gas into the flask continuously. Once it is flushed and the solvent degassed, you
don't actually need much inert gas flow - just enough to displace air from the system.
Next time I run a reaction, i'll take a photo
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