Nemo_Tenetur
Hazard to Self
Posts: 53
Registered: 13-12-2023
Location: Germany
Member Is Offline
|
|
Inflated prices
I was really shocked after a quick search for actual prices for some lab chemicals here in Germany!
Fuming sulphuric acid , 500 gram (about 250 milliliter!) 408 Euro.
Even the non-analytical grade ("rein" means slightly better than technical grade) calls for 585 Euro per 500 milliliter.
Nitric acid fuming 572 Euro per liter.
Carbohydrazide, not analytical grade (lousy 97%, thats technical grade), 452 Euro per 500 gram.
Don´t forget to add taxes in each case (19%).
All these chemicals are produced in very large quantities worldwide from cheap precursors. Are the prices in other areas of the world also at such an
outrageous level?
|
|
fx-991ex
Hazard to Others
Posts: 105
Registered: 20-5-2023
Member Is Offline
|
|
sigma are known to be ripoff, you may get better price if you call them but almost everyone avoid them because as i said, they are a ripoff.
[Edited on 15-1-2025 by fx-991ex]
|
|
Nemo_Tenetur
Hazard to Self
Posts: 53
Registered: 13-12-2023
Location: Germany
Member Is Offline
|
|
Here is another example, tetrachloromethane:
https://www.analytics-shop.com/de/sa289116-100ml
100 ml = 385 Euro plus taxes. That´s insane for large-scale industrial chemical produced from natural gas and elemental chlorine.
|
|
Fery
International Hazard
Posts: 1037
Registered: 27-8-2019
Location: Czechoslovakia
Member Is Offline
|
|
CCl4 is banned in EU, my friend who is a chemistry company cofounder buys CCl4 from India and pays import taxes.
|
|
Plateings
Harmless
Posts: 8
Registered: 14-1-2025
Member Is Offline
Mood: Superposition
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by Fery | CCl4 is banned in EU, my friend who is a chemistry company cofounder buys CCl4 from India and pays import taxes. |
It's surprising that CCl4 is prohibited in the EU but not in Turkey. Despite Turkey not being an EU member, its chemical regulations often align with
EU standards. However, in Turkey, it seems much easier for ordinary consumers to purchase many chemicals directly, without needing to be a company or
present specific documentation. For instance, CCl4 can be bought in 0.5L quantities for $16.50.
[Edited on 15-1-2025 by Plateings]
"I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned." -Richard P. Feynman-
|
|
Texium
Administrator
Posts: 4637
Registered: 11-1-2014
Location: Salt Lake City
Member Is Offline
Mood: Preparing to defend myself (academically)
|
|
CCl4 is practically unavailable and very expensive in the US, even from companies that only sell to businesses and universities. I have
always used alternatives when adapting procedures that call for it.
Sigma's prices are generally very high, but I've found that in a few cases the cost justifies it. Anhydrous solvents, for instance. Other companies'
septum sealed bottles are simply inferior to Sigma's SureSeal bottles. I've checked water levels with Karl Fischer titration and never found a bottle
from Sigma to be out of spec, while bottles made by Acros or Alfa-Aesar have had orders of magnitude more water than they were supposed to before even
being used. This can make or break water sensitive reactions. When you're doing research on a professional lab budget, you need to be able to trust
the quality of your reagents, and it's worth paying for it.
Also, most universities and large companies have pricing deals with Sigma and the other big companies so the prices you see on the public site are not
what they actually pay.
|
|
Keras
National Hazard
Posts: 978
Registered: 20-8-2018
Location: (48, 2)
Member Is Offline
|
|
Starting this year Laboratorium Discounter sells carbon disulphide for quite a low price. Make it react with an excess of chlorine and you get
CCl₄. You get also S₂Cl₂, that you can use with, e.g. sodium acetate to get acetic anhydride.
|
|
Nemo_Tenetur
Hazard to Self
Posts: 53
Registered: 13-12-2023
Location: Germany
Member Is Offline
|
|
Do you mean laboratoriumdiscounter.nl ? I´ve just checked their website and it doesn´t contain carbon disulphide.
Carbon disulphide is highly poisonsous and extremely flammable, therefore not allowed in Germany to sell online to private individuals.
I was redirected from their .nl website directly to their German language website. Maybe this is the reason why I didn´t found it?
|
|
Deathunter88
National Hazard
Posts: 535
Registered: 20-2-2015
Location: Beijing, China
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by Texium | CCl4 is practically unavailable and very expensive in the US, even from companies that only sell to businesses and universities. I have
always used alternatives when adapting procedures that call for it.
Sigma's prices are generally very high, but I've found that in a few cases the cost justifies it. Anhydrous solvents, for instance. Other companies'
septum sealed bottles are simply inferior to Sigma's SureSeal bottles. I've checked water levels with Karl Fischer titration and never found a bottle
from Sigma to be out of spec, while bottles made by Acros or Alfa-Aesar have had orders of magnitude more water than they were supposed to before even
being used. This can make or break water sensitive reactions. When you're doing research on a professional lab budget, you need to be able to trust
the quality of your reagents, and it's worth paying for it.
Also, most universities and large companies have pricing deals with Sigma and the other big companies so the prices you see on the public site are not
what they actually pay. |
To add on to this, in a research setting the main cost is human resources and not the reagents. I only began to appreciate this after starting working
on my PhD. I am funded on a 100k grant but only 5 grand goes to supplies, the rest goes to salary, tuition, university overhead etc.
When I'm in my home lab if my hardware store grade toluene has an impurity that messes up my extraction, it's a bummer but not a big deal. If I'm
working on a sponsor funded project with a tight deadline and my toluene wash adds some contamination that I don't notice until I'm doing TEM then
that's at least a couple grand worth of instrument time wasted plus potentially loss of a sponsor not to mention my own paid time. So I would happily
pay 10x the cost of what I can get toluene elsewhere for the peace of mind.
Also to back up what Texium said about discounts, I was ordering more isopropanol for my lab yesterday. The publically listed price for a case of four
4L jugs of HPLC is $728. When I log in to my university account the price drops to $100, which is actually on par with what it would cost for me to
buy isopropanol from the hardware store. I find most things actually cost just 10-50% of the publically listed price.
Attachment: phpSI6BSK (274kB) This file has been downloaded 37 times
|
|
Nemo_Tenetur
Hazard to Self
Posts: 53
Registered: 13-12-2023
Location: Germany
Member Is Offline
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by Fery | CCl4 is banned in EU, my friend who is a chemistry company cofounder buys CCl4 from India and pays import taxes. |
I doubt that CCl4 is banned in EU. According to the european chemical agency website carbon tetrachloride is manufactured and/or imported in
quantities between 1.000 and 10.000 tonnes per year and used:
https://echa.europa.eu/de/substance-information/-/substancei...
That´s a little bit too much for research and laboratory use only.
It is regulated in different ways (for example, as an ozone depleting agent, as CMR substance not available for the general public/private individual,
it may be used only in closed reaction systems to avoid release into the environment etc.) but not generally prohibited for any use.
|
|
Keras
National Hazard
Posts: 978
Registered: 20-8-2018
Location: (48, 2)
Member Is Offline
|
|
Check their ‘own brand’ chemicals,
here.
|
|
6dthjd1
Hazard to Self
Posts: 86
Registered: 30-6-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
Fuming sulfuric acid is always very expensive in my experience. It is made in huge quantities but not in the same proportion as of concentrated
sulfuric acid. Fuming sulfuric acid is harder to store and maintain compared to sulfuric acid. Though this price is very high. I've seen more like
240 USD for 250 ml
|
|
Sulaiman
International Hazard
Posts: 3747
Registered: 8-2-2015
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Member Is Offline
|
|
Sigma is owned by merck so a near monopoly, hence expensive.
CAUTION : Hobby Chemist, not Professional or even Amateur
|
|
Keras
National Hazard
Posts: 978
Registered: 20-8-2018
Location: (48, 2)
Member Is Offline
|
|
This is ridiculous, given how easy it is to make oleum. I don’t even mention pyrolysing sodium bisulfite into sodium trioxide, but the method Nurd
Rage demonstrated on his channel.
|
|
Texium
Administrator
Posts: 4637
Registered: 11-1-2014
Location: Salt Lake City
Member Is Offline
Mood: Preparing to defend myself (academically)
|
|
Sure, making it is relatively easy and cheap, but it's not that ridiculous when you consider the expense and risk involved with storing and shipping
it. Same goes for fuming nitric acid.
|
|
6dthjd1
Hazard to Self
Posts: 86
Registered: 30-6-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by Keras |
This is ridiculous, given how easy it is to make oleum. I don’t even mention pyrolysing sodium bisulfite into sodium trioxide, but the method Nurd
Rage demonstrated on his channel.
|
As indicated above and below it may be easy to make but it's hard to do so safely compared to H2SO4.
|
|